newbie question

[mrtian97]

Just have the new MS for 3 wks, couple questions:
1. I don't use this car everyday and I only have 1 Level 2 charger at home but 2 electric car. My daily drive is electric fiat. Do I really need to plug in the Tesla daily if I charge it to 80% and charge it in the weekend only (it's a weekend car). I am pretty sure with 80% and not being driven, the charge will last for 1 wk. It's inconvenient for me to charge 2 cars in 1 night

2. Rear Trunk: mine is manual close, seeing how sensitive to bent for the front trunk, is it the same issue with the rear trunk? I accustomed to just close the rear trunk in regular force but not the way Tesla delivery specialist shows (press to close instead of just slam close)

Thanks in advance

 

[hatman4731]

1. Tesla will be fine without being charged everyday. Expect anywhere from 4-10miles vampire loss per day, depending on whether you have energy saving and always connected on.
2. No issue with closing rear trunk -- it's got a whole bunch of plastic trim backing the metal as well as hydraulics to protect it. It does close and lock normally without slamming though so its not really necessary to do so.

 

[GoTslaGo]

You can always just plug your Tesla into a 110V outlet and let it trickle charge at 3 mph. Thus when your vampire drain gets low enough, your Tesla will automatically start to charge over the week. You will have your 80% for the weekend and you won't have to think about charging the Tesla at all (or worry about forgetting to charge). You would just have to check on Friday to see your state of charge, and instruct it to charge if it is too low for what you need on saturday. Obviously depends on your plug situation where you park your cars.

 

[mrtian97]

Thanks,
Another question, using the J1772 adaptor with my std level 2 charger with the Tesla, seems more difficult to disconnect from my MS. I have to unlock the port couple times until the ring is White color. The ring kept showing Blue then Green every time I unlock the port. Any suggestion?

 

[GoTslaGo]

Thanks,
Another question, using the J1772 adaptor with my std level 2 charger with the Tesla, seems more difficult to disconnect from my MS. I have to unlock the port couple times until the ring is White color. The ring kept showing Blue then Green every time I unlock the port. Any suggestion?

You could go into the car and unlock via the screen. Other option is to use your phone app and unlock from there. I've noticed my S and X have gotten tricky with this too. Wonder if it's the new software upgrade.

 

[GarrickS]

I use the Jplug adapter every night with my car. Make sure the car is unlocked (the door handles deployed), press and hold the button on the Jplug, and wait a second or two. Don't rush it. Just hold down the button until the ring unlocks. The process is totally smooth once you get the rhythm.

 

[cbdream99]

I use the J1772 adapter on the clipper creek L2 charger. I don't charge it every day but only when it is low enough (<100 miles range) then I charge the Tesla overnight. Once it is fully charged to my limit, I press the handle latch and the port turns white, then I just hold the adapter and pull it out - works 98% of the time. If it is not fully charge then I have to unlock it from the console, or somehow the port flipped from white to blue and green quickly then I also unlock from the console first.

 

[TexasEV]

I use the J1772 adapter on the clipper creek L2 charger. I don't charge it every day but only when it is low enough (<100 miles range) then I charge the Tesla overnight. Once it is fully charged to my limit, I press the handle latch and the port turns white, then I just hold the adapter and pull it out - works 98% of the time. If it is not fully charge then I have to unlock it from the console, or somehow the port flipped from white to blue and green quickly then I also unlock from the console first.

I guess you haven't seen this?
A connected Model S is a happy Model S
Or read the UPPER CASE PRINT in the battery section of the owners manual?

 

[Rocky_H]

Hmm, good questions. Regarding the charging thing, yeah, it's fine for the main battery to leave it for a week at a time; it won't get very low. It is, however, probably going to do a lot of cycling on your 12V battery, which may shorten its life a little bit. That supplies the small vampire loads of the computer systems and such while the car is sitting. It will drain down, and then the main battery will kick in to top it back up. This will probably happen a few times a day if you're not driving it.

Regarding the trunk, ah yes, I've only used a non-power liftgate once on a Tesla. It is only the frunk that requires that careful slow press to close it. There could be two cases, and I don't remember which way the Tesla is. Some very plain cars have just a regular latch, and you just slam it closed. Some others don't have the motorized struts to open and close the hatch, but they do have a little motor in the latch, where you press it into the latch slowly, and it grabs hold and pulls it the rest of the way in. Try pressing it to see if you hear a motor engage in the latch to finish closing it. If you don't hear that, then it's the old standard "slamming" kind. I think that latter version is how it was on the car I tried, but that was a couple of years ago. Newer models may not be the same.

 

[Rocky_H]

Oh, and regarding removing the J1772, yeah, I know those difficulties, because if you click the latch on the J1772 handle and release it, it seems like a vast majority of the time, the port will lock onto the adapter again.

Foolproof way uses two hands. Click AND HOLD the release button on the J1772 handle. With your other hand, grab the adapter. Pull them both out together.

If you just click the button and pull the J1772 out, and the adapter stays in the port, not a big deal. On the key fob, press and hold the back trunk button for about 3 seconds, and that will unlock the charge port, releasing your adapter.

 

[mrtian97]

Thanks for all the reply, I will try this unlocking method, made sense

 

[tga]

It is, however, probably going to do a lot of cycling on your 12V battery, which may shorten its life a little bit.

Life isn't really any easier for the 12V if you keep the car plugged in. There's no AC-powered 12V charger, and the AC is only energized when the car is actively charging the main traction battery or running the HVAC.

While the main battery is charging, the HV bus is energized and the DC-DC is (presumably) running 12V loads, but once charging is finished, it doesn't really matter if the car is plugged in or not - the 12V still cycles multiple times per day.

 

[Rocky_H]

Life isn't really any easier for the 12V if you keep the car plugged in. There's no AC-powered 12V charger, and the AC is only energized when the car is actively charging the main traction battery or running the HVAC.

While the main battery is charging, the HV bus is energized and the DC-DC is (presumably) running 12V loads, but once charging is finished, it doesn't really matter if the car is plugged in or not - the 12V still cycles multiple times per day.

Yes, that is all totally true. I think you mistook what I was comparing. I was not talking about whether it is plugged in or not while sitting. I was talking about sitting versus being used and driven every day.

When you are driving the car a few times a day every single day, it is topping up the 12V battery from the main pack using that DC to DC circuit, so the 12V isn't getting drained all that far down, because the car is only sitting for a few hours at a time before being recharged while it's being driven. It's not getting into as many deep discharge states when it's being driven frequently. My point was about if the car sits for a really long time (whether plugged in or not), the 12V state is going to go low/high/low/high/low/high as it keeps draining down quite a lot and then having to be recharged back up.

 

[hatman4731]

Yes, that is all totally true. I think you mistook what I was comparing. I was not talking about whether it is plugged in or not while sitting. I was talking about sitting versus being used and driven every day.

When you are driving the car a few times a day every single day, it is topping up the 12V battery from the main pack using that DC to DC circuit, so the 12V isn't getting drained all that far down, because the car is only sitting for a few hours at a time before being recharged while it's being driven. It's not getting into as many deep discharge states when it's being driven frequently. My point was about if the car sits for a really long time (whether plugged in or not), the 12V state is going to go low/high/low/high/low/high as it keeps draining down quite a lot and then having to be recharged back up.

Do you have a source for this? While it makes sense that ICE cars only recharge during driving because thats the only time it generates power, there's no reason a Tesla can't top off the 12v using the battery pack even while sitting in a a garage. In fact, I would imagine that's exactly what its doing since the main battery pack charge does go down in a single day, indicating that its regularly topping off the 12v instead of waiting for it to discharge to a low voltage before charging it back up.

 

[Rocky_H]

Do you have a source for this? While it makes sense that ICE cars only recharge during driving because thats the only time it generates power, there's no reason a Tesla can't top off the 12v using the battery pack even while sitting in a a garage. In fact, I would imagine that's exactly what its doing since the main battery pack charge does go down in a single day, indicating that its regularly topping off the 12v instead of waiting for it to discharge to a low voltage before charging it back up.

When you say source for "this", what "this" are you talking about?

"In fact, I would imagine that's exactly what its doing since the main battery pack charge does go down in a single day, indicating that its regularly topping off the 12v"

This may be what you're not getting. It has been studied found by battery meters and such how and when the recharging works. It does not just constantly trickle from the main high voltage battery pack to the small 12V. For safety, they do not want to keep the high voltage pack energized to the rest of the car constantly, so it has contactors which are kept in an open position, isolating the high voltage when the car is off. The car's systems monitor the state of the 12V charge, and when it does get to some low point, it will engage the high voltage battery again to run a recharge cycle, and then disconnect the high voltage battery again. So it has long periods of draining down the 12V, and then a very brief recharge cycle. This same reasoning is also why it does not give a slow trickle charge through the wall connector. It would need to be energized all the time, and they don't want to do that.

 

[hatman4731]

What you are saying makes sense, but I guess I am misunderstanding a bit about the system as a whole. As I understand it, the 12V powers all idle activity when the Tesla is off and it gets recharged from the main pack if the voltage gets low enough. On average we are looking anywhere from 4-10 miles of range drop per day depending on what energy-saving features is on.

If I leave an ICE car undriven for 1 day I do not expect the 12V battery to be dead the next day. This opens up two questions:
1. Does the Tesla really have such a higher vampire drain compared to conventional cars? Even if Energy Saving and Always Connected settings set to low-energy, we commonly see ~3-4 miles drain per day which seems far more than other ICE cars, even from cars like mercedes that have their own connectivity app.
2. How many "miles" does the 12V battery store before needing a recharge? I can't imagine anymore than 1-2 miles, which indicates that the 12V is being drained and recharged multiple times in a single idle day. Is this true?

 

[Rocky_H]

As I understand it, the 12V powers all idle activity when the Tesla is off and it gets recharged from the main pack if the voltage gets low enough.

Yes.

On average we are looking anywhere from 4-10 miles of range drop per day depending on what energy-saving features is on.

Holy cow, no. 4 miles a day would already be really too high. It might be 3 or 4 in the first day, before it goes into its deeper sleep modes over the longer term and shuts down more electronics, but then it's more like 1-2 miles.

If I leave an ICE car undriven for 1 day I do not expect the 12V battery to be dead the next day. This opens up two questions:
1. Does the Tesla really have such a higher vampire drain compared to conventional cars? Even if Energy Saving and Always Connected settings set to low-energy, we commonly see ~3-4 miles drain per day which seems far more than other ICE cars, even from cars like mercedes that have their own connectivity app.

There is a lot of electronics and computer systems in the Tesla--much more than other cars, so yes, I would say it probably does have higher vampire drain than other cars. The other factor of this is that the 12V battery in a Tesla is smaller total capacity than in regular gas cars, so your comparison to a Mercedes or other gas car doesn't translate well. The 12V in a Tesla can be topped up as needed, and doesn't need to crank start a cold gas engine, so they figured it can be undersized, since it only has to feed electronics.

2. How many "miles" does the 12V battery store before needing a recharge? I can't imagine anymore than 1-2 miles, which indicates that the 12V is being drained and recharged multiple times in a single idle day. Is this true?

It's hard or not very appropriate to measure the 12V capacity in miles, but yes, I think people have taken long term measurements of this and reported it here on the forum, and it is multiple recharging cycles a day--maybe 2 or 3.

 

[hatman4731]

Wow, that's pretty enlightening and a bit concerning regarding the lifetime of the 12V battery -- I've seen forum posts regarding longevity of the 12V but from what you describe it does mean ironically that the less you drive the car the sooner the 12V dies. Thanks Rocky_H

 

[tga]

Yes, that is all totally true. I think you mistook what I was comparing. I was not talking about whether it is plugged in or not while sitting. I was talking about sitting versus being used and driven every day.

When you are driving the car a few times a day every single day, it is topping up the 12V battery from the main pack using that DC to DC circuit, so the 12V isn't getting drained all that far down, because the car is only sitting for a few hours at a time before being recharged while it's being driven. It's not getting into as many deep discharge states when it's being driven frequently. My point was about if the car sits for a really long time (whether plugged in or not), the 12V state is going to go low/high/low/high/low/high as it keeps draining down quite a lot and then having to be recharged back up.

Yes, I misunderstood your point. I agree with everything you said here.