Newer P90DL makes 662 hp at the battery!!!

[R.S]

It doesn't matter whether I use shaft hp or battery horsepower since it is the ratio of powers that affects the elapsed times. I used the ratio of 670 / 690 to get the effect on elapsed time assuming the same weight. Then I used the ratio of the weights of the cars to get the effect of the heavier p100d.

You used the ratio 670/690, but why? 690 is a number that has nothing to do with either the P90D, or the P100D, if you look at battery power levels, nor at shaft power levels. You could have also used 1947/1946 since those are the birth years of both US presidential candidates. You can't just compare battery power and theoretically maximum shaft power and assume you got to a valid conclusion. That this additional power is also just available for a certain rev range, neither at the very low, nor the very high, makes your calculation even more wrong.

 

[ShotgunF15E]

I would like to add some more details to our trip to Auto Club Famoso Raceway, north of Bakersfield. I decided to join Shotgun at the last moment. We both made long trips starting at 5am and met at the Buttonwillow Supercharger. Had breakfast while the cars charged to 100%. Then drove 25 miles to Flying J Truck Plaza which was 8 miles from the track. Plug Share stated Flying J had 8 14-50 chargers. Since I arrived there first I asked the cashiers where they were located and they replied the chargers were installed one month ago but were not operational. Shotgun (Daren) over the phone told me they were located far from the store next to the freeway. I found them but panicked when my 14-50 adaptor would not fit their 14-30 socket and I was down to 88%. Daren saved the day as he had the 14-30 in his bag and he called the company who were able to energize it. It turned out the Kiosk for payment was not operational yet and the service was 30 amps allowing only a very slow charge of 24 amps. So it took 2 hours for Darens P90DL v2 to charge from 90 to 100%.

While Daren was charging we noticed a truck weight scale on site and asked if we could weigh a car. The lady replied sure, just push the button and come inside for the printout. So we weighed my P85DL with air and Pano only (19" wheels). But to get the results cost me $11, 2500 for front and 2400 for back for a total weight of 4,900 pounds. I thought maybe they were rounding it to the nearest 100 pounds but she showed me a weight ticket that included weights in 10 lb increments. Since Daren did not have a helmet I gave him mine to race with while I used his 14-30 adaptor. By this time my charge was down to 85% as we had been sitting in my car with the air on. So it took me an additional 2 and 3/4 hours to charge from 85 to 99%.

The track was open at 10am with racing between 11 and 5pm. Daren had messaged me that he had done a 11.105 and he was happy with his 120.39 speed which is the fastest listed for a P90DL v2. So I hurried to the track to get there by 3pm before Daren went back to San Diego. I forgot to use slip start on my first 2 runs but I managed an 11.267 @ 117.10 on my first run at 95%. This was .043 sec slower than my previous best at this track and 2 mph slower. There were a lot fewer racers this time so I made 7 runs within one hour. I had my best run with the fast pedal and now I am undecided which method is the best. One thing is for sure Launch Mode was the worst and I also has a terrible reaction time.

Overall it was a long day but we enjoyed it. We also agreed it is very hard to run a 10.99 even for a P90DL v2.

Pretty good (and funny) summary of the adventure.

Of note, my car is about as heavy as a Model S can be configured. So coming across the line at 11.105 is pretty damn close and good enough for me until I find a way to put my car on a diet and remove some weight.

 

[TIppy]

You used the ratio 670/690, but why? 690 is a number that has nothing to do with either the P90D, or the P100D, if you look at battery power levels, nor at shaft power levels. You could have also used 1947/1946 since those are the birth years of both US presidential candidates. You can't just compare battery power and theoretically maximum shaft power and assume you got to a valid conclusion. That this additional power is also just available for a certain rev range, neither at the very low, nor the very high, makes your calculation even more wrong.

I'm saying because of the very peaked and different shape of the power curve at 760 hp that it creates the same thermal load on the motors as 690 hp would if it had the same shape power curve as a v3 p90dl. How did the exact same motors go from 690 hp to 760 hp? They didn't. The peak power is 760 but it still averages out to 690 hp because of thermal limitations. If the power curves are the same shape, the net horsepower should scale as the ratio of the maximum powers. The elapsed times should scale as the ratio of the net horsepower to the one third power.

 

[P85DEE]

From the results seen so far in the wild from private owners reporting, and with the exception of the outlier 10.8 P90D, it's looking like the times reported for P90D vary from 11.0 to 11.2.

The quickest V1 P90D as well as the quickest P85D with Ludicrous have submitted quarter mile times of 11.2.

It's looking like of the V2 P90DL cars making power in the 500-510KW range and with the 107xxxx batteries, of those results , most of them have reported quarter mile bests of 11.1.

In other words, there seems to be about a tenths difference, give or take, between bests reported quarter mile results for V2 and V1 P90D cars equipped with Ludicrous.

One "V3" P90D with a 108xxx battery has submitted the 10.8.

Fast Tesla Model-Ss 1/4 Mile 0-60 Drag Racing - DragTimes.com

 

[FlatSix911]

While Daren was charging we noticed a truck weight scale on site and asked if we could weigh a car. The lady replied sure, just push the button and come inside for the printout.So we weighed my P85DL with air and Pano only(19" wheels).But to get the results cost me $11 2500 for front and 2400 for back for a total weight of 4,900 pounds.
I thought maybe they were rounding it to the nearest 100 pounds but she showed me a weight ticket that included weights in 10 lb increments. Since Daren did not have a helmet I gave him mine to race with while I used his 14-30 adaptor. By this time my charge was down to 85% as we had been sitting in my car with the air on. So it took me an additional 2 and 3/4 hours to charge from 85 to 99%.

Overall it was a long day but we enjoyed it. We also agreed it is very hard to run a 10.99 even for a P90DL v2.

Your weight of 4,900 lbs. is very close to the published weight of 4.936 lbs.
Lighter weight racing wheels and tires will help to improve your track times.

 

[R.S]

I'm saying because of the very peaked and different shape of the power curve at 760 hp that it creates the same thermal load on the motors as 690 hp would if it had the same shape power curve as a v3 p90dl. How did the exact same motors go from 690 hp to 760 hp? They didn't. The peak power is 760 but it still averages out to 690 hp because of thermal limitations. If the power curves are the same shape, the net horsepower should scale as the ratio of the maximum powers. The elapsed times should scale as the ratio of the net horsepower to the one third power.

The motors do not peak at 690hp, we haven't even reached 690 shaft hp yet. The drop at the end isn't even a thermal issue but voltage limitations. The correlation between maximum torque, frequency and voltage in an induction motor is: Mk ~ (U/f)^2. So at some point you can't increase voltage anymore and Mk goes down with 1/f^2. And power goes down with 1/f. Because of thermal limitations we can't go for the theoretical maximum power, so we get some kind of a flat power plane for a certain rev range, but after that its only natural that there is a power drop, even if the motor could handle more.

Either way, 690hp is still peak hp and not equivalent to the maximum hp at 155mph. So while the P90D and the P100D might end up at about the same hp figures at 155mph, those aren't equivalent to 690hp.

 

[TIppy]

The motors do not peak at 690hp, we haven't even reached 690 shaft hp yet. The drop at the end isn't even a thermal issue but voltage limitations. The correlation between maximum torque, frequency and voltage in an induction motor is: Mk ~ (U/f)^2. So at some point you can't increase voltage anymore and Mk goes down with 1/f^2. And power goes down with 1/f. Because of thermal limitations we can't go for the theoretical maximum power, so we get some kind of a flat power plane for a certain rev range, but after that its only natural that there is a power drop, even if the motor could handle more.

Either way, 690hp is still peak hp and not equivalent to the maximum hp at 155mph. So while the P90D and the P100D might end up at about the same hp figures at 155mph, those aren't equivalent to 690hp.

1/f^2 is only for the breakdown torque. Rated torque decrease as 1/f and the motor exhibits constant horsepower with increased rpm once max voltage is reached. That is what is happening on the flat portion of the power curve. Before max voltage the motor operates at constant torque. The decreasing power of the p100d curve is not an extension the p90d power curve which is what would be expected if it was rpm limited.

I said 690 hp was peak(the value on the flat part of the power curve) and not at 155 mph. But if two power curves have the same shape, specifying the peak hp's defines the relative powers at all points on the curves.
If a motor generates 690 hp for one second and another motor generates 760 hp for 0.1 seconds and 682 hp for 0.9 seconds they both average 690 hp over the second.

You assume that the combined motor horsepower is at the motor shaft, but tesla didn't start specifying shaft horsepower until the uproar about horsepower. I believe they are specifying electrical power as drawn from the battery.

 

[St Charles]

Has anybody done any datalogging post 8.0?

 

[TIppy]

Has anybody done any datalogging post 8.0?

What are we looking for?

 

[dalamchops]

as soon as i get 8.0 i'll put up some data on my pitiful p90dl v1

 

[St Charles]

What are we looking for?

Possible changes to performance.

 

[TIppy]

Possible changes to performance.

Increased I hope.

 

[St Charles]

Increased I hope.

Unfortunately this is not the rumor I am hearing. It's quite the opposite, in fact. I'm looking for any concrete evidence.

 

[TIppy]

Unfortunately this is not the rumor I am hearing. It's quite the opposite, in fact. I'm looking for any concrete evidence.

Is this my earlier speculation that they might roll back the p90dl to 532 hp? What would you like me to log?

 

[TIppy]

Unfortunately this is not the rumor I am hearing. It's quite the opposite, in fact. I'm looking for any concrete evidence.

I don't see any decrease in power on the can bus with 8.0 on my v3 p90dl.
Can you be more specific about the rumored lost performance?

 

[soooma]

So an update on my V1 P90D 8/15 apparently and weirdly with V2 1071394-00-A battery pack!!!!!!!!!!

I need an answer please

I went to Tesla dealership today and my OA/SA confirmed that my battery is the one hat came on this vehicle which doesn't jive with any of your educated guesses!!
My Battery is 1073194-00-A supposedly V2 and supposedly 60 moreno ponies and my car was manufactured 8/2015 !!!!!

Guys and gurus please advise !!!

 

[TIppy]

View attachment 196343 So an update on my V1 P90D 8/15 apparently and weirdly with V2 1071394-00-A battery pack!!!!!!!!!!

I need an answer please

I went to Tesla dealership today and my OA/SA confirmed that my battery is the one hat came on this vehicle which doesn't jive with any of your educated guesses!!
My Battery is 1073194-00-A supposedly V2 and supposedly 60 moreno ponies and my car was manufactured 8/2015 !!!!!

Guys and gurus please advise !!!

Was this a demo car? If it was, service may not have a record of repairs made to the vehicle before it was transferred to the first owner. As far as service is concerned that is the battery that was on the car when it was delivered.

 

[ShotgunF15E]

Unfortunately this is not the rumor I am hearing. It's quite the opposite, in fact. I'm looking for any concrete evidence.

This would generate an instant lawsuit if they did anything to my car to decrease performance AFTER I bought it and took delivery.

 

[St Charles]

instant lawsuit

Summoning @P85DEE LOL!

 

[Tech_Guy]

Oh god please no lol