Newer to Solar, Deposit Placed & Tesla is Currently Engineering Solution: Colorado

[Ostrichsak]

I've still got a lot of questions so I wanted to create a thread to discuss some of the current questions I have along with future questions that are sure to follow as information is presented.

Placed a deposit on a "Large" (11.4 kW) system through Tesla. I'm located on the Front Range of Northern Colorado. We have a ranch-style house with a large roof with the largest section facing directly south. No trees/shade to worry about. All of the years of complaining of the neighbors not planting trees and my own tree dying has finally paid off! lol

We have two Model S cars that we drive fairly regularly. Addicted to air conditioning and run it year-round. Looking into mini split systems for the garage as well as what will eventually be our finished home theater in the basement. Our HVAC system is central that is powered by natural gas. Our water heater is an instant style that is also powered by NG. Other than that, most everything is electricity an we tend to use a fair amount for a family of two. The average over the last 8 months or so is 1,800 kW of usage (higher end due to summer time, winter months will lower this avg) and this will likely go up once we add a mini split to the garage.

My questions are is there things I should do on the front end to make sure I'm getting the best possible components? I'm not doing a Powerwall because it doesn't make sense for our application. In the 15 years or so since we built this house I think power went out twice and each time was for less than a couple of hours with one only being a half hour or so. Also, we don't really have ToU in this area so playing the higher/lower game doesn't really offer benefits of having a Powerwall.

One of my other questions is regarding selling the electricity back or taking credits on our bill. I think our electricity (Xcel) is about $0.11 kW since Colorado is largely coal powered which makes it cheap. I think the sell back wholesale rate is about $0.03 so there's a significant hit to "sell" it back. You can take it as an account credit which is done at 1/1 but this will end up being a massive credit on our account for many years to come in relatively short order based on the math I've done. This also assumes we live in the house another couple of decades since moving cancels out all credits for the next owner. The one sketchy aspect is that you have to decide up front which option you want and you can't change your mind. I think you can change once from selling it back to credits but you can't change your mind the other way which would be ideal I would think. Bank up several months of credit on the account just in case and then switch to selling it back but, alas, I don't think that's possible. Kind of lame that they want to make it seem like they're incentivising customers to move to sustainable clean energy and then enforcing arbitrary BS rules. I digress.

The next area I have questions is on the actual components/hardware of the install. I think I've read that Q CELL or Panasonic are the way to go based on overall production and warranty terms. Is this accurate? Also, what type of inverters do I want? I think there was a version that if one panel had shade or went down then NO panels produced energy. I'd like to avoid that and I think the desired version was micro something or another? Any particular brand or model I should request? To the best of my knowledge I can make special requests such as this at the time of contracting with Tesla, right?

Any other tips or pointers I should consider as a solar n00b?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Akikiki]

Sounds good. I just switched my system from Enphase microinverters to a Solaredge single inverter. The swap includes a device on each panel called an optimizer which passes the electricity although one panel may not be producing. I just upgraded my 2009/2010 installed system of 5.7 to 11.8 kW. The Enphase microinverters are dumb like a network hub. The Solaredge is a smart inverter and the local utility can take advantage of features that the Enphase didn't have. The utility rewarded me allowing an increase production and still stay within my Net Metering Agreement by moving to the Solaredge products.

I've learned at least one thing regarding my utility. They who maketh the rule, breakth the rule. Sure they must get approval via public utility commission, but they do get the approvals. My point being what's currently the way your utility deals with buy backs or credits or other things, could change for or against. Avoid locking yourself in to one course if you can.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Thanks for the response.

Summary: it sounds like I want to request a Solaredge single inverter with an optimizer on each panel, correct?

I know(?) we have net metering in Colorado but I don't know the specifics. I would assume that Tesla will have access to all of that information & can educate me before I commit fully but I want to make sure that I'm asking the right questions on the front end and asking for the best possible hardware for my application before we get too far into the weeds.

 

[Akikiki]

I say yes, Solaredge that's from only my own experience. The reason I started looking for an alternative to Enphase was their warranty. The devices were warranty for 20-25 years. But not their labor. I had to pay for the labor to replace 10 of 36 as one at a time failed. The replacements had the same conditions. Fool me once... Enphase has newer tech now, but I am not going to trust them.

I would be surprised if Tesla was not already planning on using Solaredge for your installation.

 

[Odiemac]

I've still got a lot of questions so I wanted to create a thread to discuss some of the current questions I have along with future questions that are sure to follow as information is presented.

Placed a deposit on a "Large" (11.4 kW) system through Tesla. I'm located on the Front Range of Northern Colorado. We have a ranch-style house with a large roof with the largest section facing directly south. No trees/shade to worry about. All of the years of complaining of the neighbors not planting trees and my own tree dying has finally paid off! lol

We have two Model S cars that we drive fairly regularly. Addicted to air conditioning and run it year-round. Looking into mini split systems for the garage as well as what will eventually be our finished home theater in the basement. Our HVAC system is central that is powered by natural gas. Our water heater is an instant style that is also powered by NG. Other than that, most everything is electricity an we tend to use a fair amount for a family of two. The average over the last 8 months or so is 1,800 kW of usage (higher end due to summer time, winter months will lower this avg) and this will likely go up once we add a mini split to the garage.

My questions are is there things I should do on the front end to make sure I'm getting the best possible components? I'm not doing a Powerwall because it doesn't make sense for our application. In the 15 years or so since we built this house I think power went out twice and each time was for less than a couple of hours with one only being a half hour or so. Also, we don't really have ToU in this area so playing the higher/lower game doesn't really offer benefits of having a Powerwall.

One of my other questions is regarding selling the electricity back or taking credits on our bill. I think our electricity (Xcel) is about $0.11 kW since Colorado is largely coal powered which makes it cheap. I think the sell back wholesale rate is about $0.03 so there's a significant hit to "sell" it back. You can take it as an account credit which is done at 1/1 but this will end up being a massive credit on our account for many years to come in relatively short order based on the math I've done. This also assumes we live in the house another couple of decades since moving cancels out all credits for the next owner. The one sketchy aspect is that you have to decide up front which option you want and you can't change your mind. I think you can change once from selling it back to credits but you can't change your mind the other way which would be ideal I would think. Bank up several months of credit on the account just in case and then switch to selling it back but, alas, I don't think that's possible. Kind of lame that they want to make it seem like they're incentivising customers to move to sustainable clean energy and then enforcing arbitrary BS rules. I digress.

The next area I have questions is on the actual components/hardware of the install. I think I've read that Q CELL or Panasonic are the way to go based on overall production and warranty terms. Is this accurate? Also, what type of inverters do I want? I think there was a version that if one panel had shade or went down then NO panels produced energy. I'd like to avoid that and I think the desired version was micro something or another? Any particular brand or model I should request? To the best of my knowledge I can make special requests such as this at the time of contracting with Tesla, right?

Any other tips or pointers I should consider as a solar n00b?

Thanks for the help!

Tesla will probably try and use Delta inverters and Q Cell panels unless you ask for something different. If you have shading, definitely worth it to ask for the SolarEdge with Optimizers. If you don’t have shading, then it doesn’t matter too much. Panasonic panels are slightly better but they often say they’re “out of stock” of these.

Check inverter sizing too as this matters to production. ~15% smaller inverters than panel is OK (e.g. 10kw inverter for 11.4kw panels), but you don’t want to go much below that.

If you’re going to be either running up a massive credit or getting paid $0.03, are you getting too much solar for your usage? Maybe the smaller system paired with a Powerwall would equally reduce your bill but also have the advantage of no longer run if your house on coal power.

 

[Ostrichsak]

The engineering specs are in, please let me know if this is ideal equipment or if I should request something different:

Quantity: 36 panels
System size: 11.34
Est. Annual Production: 13705.23 kWh

SolarEdge Single Phase Inverter (they include a whole list of model #'s so not really sure how to tell which one(s) I'm getting?)

Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G5/SC 310-320
ETA: The "Payment Details" page on the Tesla site state: "Hanwha 315W premium black panels" specifically

What specs do I need to post here in order for y'all to be able to tell me if this system is ideal or if I should request changes or shop around.

Thanks!

 

[MorrisonHiker]

We are on Xcel's TOU plan and thanks to our Powerwalls, nearly all of our power from the grid is at the off-peak or shoulder rates of $0.08/kWh. We have virtually no peak rate charges. Most of our energy production is credited back to us at $0.13/kWh (part-peak) or $0.18/kWh (peak). We have an evaporative cooler instead of A/C so cooling our home uses hardly any energy, maybe 1/10 of what A/C would cost. We do have 3 Teslas currently and our 16.5 kW system isn't sufficient to cover all of our usage year-round. While we won't have any electric bill from March - October or so, we'll have to use those credits in the winter months. Thanks to solar, our bills have decreased greatly but still haven't eliminated our grid usage.

We got the most efficient panels they offered at the time (Panasonic) and since we didn't have any shading, they put in the Delta Solivia inverters. Our inverters actually add up to 18 kW and we've actually seen our 16.5 kW system hit slightly over 18 kW for brief periods of time.

I really don't think you can put in too much solar. What percentage usage are they saying your system will cover? Based on the numbers you gave, I calculated about 63% (13705/1800*12). Ours was supposed to be 141% of our usage but we knew it wasn't going to be enough since my commute changed and I can no longer charge at work. We are already looking at adding another 4 kW to help better cover the winter usage.

 

[Ostrichsak]

We are on Xcel's TOU plan and thanks to our Powerwalls, nearly all of our power from the grid is at the off-peak or shoulder rates of $0.08/kWh. We have virtually no peak rate charges. Most of our energy production is credited back to us at $0.13/kWh (part-peak) or $0.18/kWh (peak). We have an evaporative cooler instead of A/C so cooling our home uses hardly any energy, maybe 1/10 of what A/C would cost. We do have 3 Teslas currently and our 16.5 kW system isn't sufficient to cover all of our usage year-round. While we won't have any electric bill from March - October or so, we'll have to use those credits in the winter months. Thanks to solar, our bills have decreased greatly but still haven't eliminated our grid usage.

We got the most efficient panels they offered at the time (Panasonic) and since we didn't have any shading, they put in the Delta Solivia inverters. Our inverters actually add up to 18 kW and we've actually seen our 16.5 kW system hit slightly over 18 kW for brief periods of time.

I really don't think you can put in too much solar. What percentage usage are they saying your system will cover? Based on the numbers you gave, I calculated about 63% (13705/1800*12). Ours was supposed to be 141% of our usage but we knew it wasn't going to be enough since my commute changed and I can no longer charge at work. We are already looking at adding another 4 kW to help better cover the winter usage.

I'm glad you joined the conversation since you're local-ish and I know you guys have a rather extensive solar setup. I'm still confused by the ToU and credit options though as I wasn't even aware we had ToU differences in our area yet. At this point we weren't choosing Powerwalls largely based on that fact. I was under the assumption that it wouldn't make much/any sense w/o ToU so that's why we were going with strictly solar. If you're saying we have ToU (perhaps a difference between Xcel in your area and our area?) then it may be back up for discussion.

You're saying that you can sell your solar back to Xcel at $0.13/kWh or $0.18/kWh and use it at off-peak rates of $0.08/kWh which nets a savings of between $0.05-$0.10/kWh using this method? Based on our usage this could potentially save us $90-$180 per month. I assume my numbers are off somewhere and there's a lot more at play especially if we're not fully covering our usage with the spec'd solar array.

We're down to two Tesla Model S and only one of us is currently commuting 5-days per week. I expect this to change to more usage sooner than later. I figure we pay about $50/mo to charge our cars and the other electrical use is about $125/mo average.

Our home is green-built so it's very energy efficient. Up until recently, we've had the programmable thermostat set to 70deg year-round with auto heat/cool enabled. I literally didn't touch the settings for nearly 15 years since we built his place. Needless to say, that's not ideal for power usage but hey! We were comfortable! lol I'm looking to make some changes here as we don't necessarily need to use this much energy. I've considered adding mini-splits to various rooms as it would make more sense for use to use the central HVAC much less and just heat/cool the rooms we're using since it's just the two of us. No large family that require us to heat/cool the entire house 24/7/365.

Are the Panasonic panels still the better panel in terms of efficiency, reliability and warranty? Should I be requesting those over the Q.CELL that we've been quoted? We don't currently have any shading issues but if the potential for these panels to provide 25+ years of service exists I'm just thinking forward since I can't control what type of trees our neighbors plant.

As far as what size, they have three options now: small, medium & large. I clicked "large" based on our usage and I'm still not sure if something larger or smaller would be better for us. I'm confused by the ToU and the options to "sell" power back to the utility and these are massive omissions for making an ultimate decision on what's right for us.

 

[km100]

Late joining this thread and I'm glad I found it since I am also in CO (Littleton area). Just put a deposit down for a large system and working with the rep on questions etc.
They gave me the exact same specs as yours Ostrichsak. I asked them about Panasonic panels just this morning and they said that Hanwha are better looking and installs well and Panasonics are only offered in certain markets and regions. So not available to us.
My large system would cover around 71% of our usage so I am considering adding a Large + Small and waiting for numbers from the engineers.
Will keep posted here.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I'm glad you joined the conversation since you're local-ish and I know you guys have a rather extensive solar setup. I'm still confused by the ToU and credit options though as I wasn't even aware we had ToU differences in our area yet. At this point we weren't choosing Powerwalls largely based on that fact. I was under the assumption that it wouldn't make much/any sense w/o ToU so that's why we were going with strictly solar. If you're saying we have ToU (perhaps a difference between Xcel in your area and our area?) then it may be back up for discussion.

Xcel it still rolling out ToU and I don't know if everyone can get it. When we signed up two years ago, there was a 33% chance that we would've been put in a control group with a new smart meter but no actual ToU savings. Fortunately, we got the actual ToU plan. Even before adding solar, it helped us reduce our bills by about 33% just by changing when we charge our cars, do laundry, run the dishwasher, etc.

You're saying that you can sell your solar back to Xcel at $0.13/kWh or $0.18/kWh and use it at off-peak rates of $0.08/kWh which nets a savings of between $0.05-$0.10/kWh using this method? Based on our usage this could potentially save us $90-$180 per month. I assume my numbers are off somewhere and there's a lot more at play especially if we're not fully covering our usage with the spec'd solar array.

You wouldn't be able to benefit as much since you aren't adding Powerwalls. Without it, you could still earn the credits of $0.08/kWh (off-peak), $0.13/kWh (part-peak/shoulder) or $0.18/kWh peak when your solar system is producing. If you then try to move usage to the cheaper period, then you could charge your cars, do laundry, etc. when it is cheaper at night. Basically, you'd just try to really limit any usage between 2 pm and 6 pm...but normally during that time your solar system would be producing. If you have Powerwalls, they help balance the load even more so that virtually all of your usage would be off-peak or part-peak, even when you don't have any solar production due to weather. The Powerwalls aren't cheap so it would probably take a while for you to get a return on your investment.

Are the Panasonic panels still the better panel in terms of efficiency, reliability and warranty? Should I be requesting those over the Q.CELL that we've been quoted? We don't currently have any shading issues but if the potential for these panels to provide 25+ years of service exists I'm just thinking forward since I can't control what type of trees our neighbors plant.

As far as what size, they have three options now: small, medium & large. I clicked "large" based on our usage and I'm still not sure if something larger or smaller would be better for us. I'm confused by the ToU and the options to "sell" power back to the utility and these are massive omissions for making an ultimate decision on what's right for us.

Late joining this thread and I'm glad I found it since I am also in CO (Littleton area). Just put a deposit down for a large system and working with the rep on questions etc.
They gave me the exact same specs as yours Ostrichsak. I asked them about Panasonic panels just this morning and they said that Hanwha are better looking and installs well and Panasonics are only offered in certain markets and regions. So not available to us.
My large system would cover around 71% of our usage so I am considering adding a Large + Small and waiting for numbers from the engineers.
Will keep posted here.

The Panasonic panels are slightly more efficient and don't lose as much production during the heat of the day. The did also have a better warranty. The other panels do look nicer but we were trying to get the most efficient panels we could so that we could offset as much of our usage as possible. If we could do it again, I might've considered mixing panels and put the black/black panels on the lower roof of the garage and keep the higher efficiency Panasonic panels on the second floor and back of the garage.

Things were a bit different last year when we got our system and they would custom-size the system and provide quotes on any panel we asked about. I know they are trying to streamline things by only offering small, medium and large systems today. They do say that you can expand (rental) systems so I think they'll do that for owned systems as well. Actually, it sounds like @km100 will be going that route. We are researching adding a "small" system to our existing system but have to wait until we've had a year's worth of bills. We have to prove to Xcel that our current system isn't sufficient.

BTW, we were confused by Xcel's Netmetering as well. We didn't want to deal with them sending us checks. The credits we get are applied directly to our bill and then deducted on the following bill. We actually have two meters and two accounts with Xcel now. We should also still receive a payment from Xcel for Renewable Energy Credits. I'm guessing we'll get the first check after our one year anniversary and it will probably only amount to $125 to $150.

 

[Akikiki]

Last month my contractor, replaced 26 200-215 Sanyo (2009-2011) panels for 25 LG 335 panels on my house. I already had 10 newer LG 315'a. There are larger than your 315 Panasonic, but not only larger in capability, my new ones were larger in form factor. I didn't catch the actual size in width and length.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Last month my contractor, replaced 26 200-215 Sanyo (2009-2011) panels for 25 LG 335 panels on my house. I already had 10 newer LG 315'a. There are larger than your 315 Panasonic, but not only larger in capability, my new ones were larger in form factor. I didn't catch the actual size in width and length.

I don't know if you were referring to my system but we actually got the 325 W Panasonic panels. They had black/black 315 W Panasonic panels as well but we went with the 325 W panels. I thought they told us all panels are the same size these days but I could be remembering things incorrectly.

That's nice that you were able to bump up the size of your system so much. I can imagine things will be even more efficient in another 10 years. I wonder if Tesla will offer an upgrade option.

 

[Akikiki]

MorrisonHiker, no, I was sort of replying to Ostricksak's comment on his quote that included "Hanwha 315W premium black panels".

My new LGs are length and width larger than my Sanyo's. I had 200w Sanyos and 215's the 215's were same width but 4 inches longer. The new LG's are considerably bigger.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

MorrisonHiker, no, I was sort of replying to Ostricksak's comment on his quote that included "Hanwha 315W premium black panels".

My new LGs are length and width larger than my Sanyo's. I had 200w Sanyos and 215's the 215's were same width but 4 inches longer. The new LG's are considerably bigger.

Yeah, that's why i was confused since you mentioned "315 Panasonic" but he mentioned the Hanwha 315W panels.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Yeah, that's why i was confused since you mentioned "315 Panasonic" but he mentioned the Hanwha 315W panels.

I'm super confused since every component seems to be made by several manufacturers with each one having several names and people freely referring to them by any one of the three different names. For example, these solar panels are Q.PEAK, Q.ANTUM, Q.CELL, Hanwha and I'm sure there are others I'm missing. I guess I just thought that maybe Panasonic was a parent company or maybe LG was or... who knows?

I also keep getting people on the Facebook page saying that one panel is superior and than others make it sound like it's the inferior one to go with.

That's just the panels.

I feel like I'm way over my skis on this one. I don't like making such large financial decisions w/o feeling comfortable 1) I'm getting a good value for my money and 2) it's the right purchase for us. At this point I'm having a hard time with #2 since I'm not even sure what #1 is. I feel the more I try to research it the more confused I get. I'm not sure if I need to speak with Xcel or Tesla to get further details for our specific area and usage. I'm hesitant to contact Tesla since they have an obvious financial benefit to the info they supply. I guess the same could be said for Xcel in this case as well but at least I could found out definitively what options are and aren't available to me at my service address as of this date since it seems like moving target.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I'm super confused since every component seems to be made by several manufacturers with each one having several names and people freely referring to them by any one of the three different names. For example, these solar panels are Q.PEAK, Q.ANTUM, Q.CELL, Hanwha and I'm sure there are others I'm missing. I guess I just thought that maybe Panasonic was a parent company or maybe LG was or... who knows?

I also keep getting people on the Facebook page saying that one panel is superior and than others make it sound like it's the inferior one to go with.

That's just the panels.

I feel like I'm way over my skis on this one. I don't like making such large financial decisions w/o feeling comfortable 1) I'm getting a good value for my money and 2) it's the right purchase for us. At this point I'm having a hard time with #2 since I'm not even sure what #1 is. I feel the more I try to research it the more confused I get. I'm not sure if I need to speak with Xcel or Tesla to get further details for our specific area and usage. I'm hesitant to contact Tesla since they have an obvious financial benefit to the info they supply. I guess the same could be said for Xcel in this case as well but at least I could found out definitively what options are and aren't available to me at my service address as of this date since it seems like moving target.

I would definitely consider ToU, especially if you don't have a lot of usage between 2 pm and 6 pm on weekdays. I know someone created a thread years ago which included an Excel spreadsheet where someone put together a model that helped you determine how much you could save on ToU. You could create one yourself as all you need to do is enter your estimated usage per moth for peak, part-peak and off-peak and it will calculate your potential savings. Whatever you do, don't sign up for Peak Demand Pricing! With that plan, you pay almost nothing per kWh but you pay something like $15/kW (!) for the peak kW delivered to your house. That could easily cost you $225+ a month for peak demand before they add on the pennies for the actual kWh.

Here's the thread I was looking for: Xcel Time of Use Rates in Colorado The spreadsheet is here: Xcel Time of Use Rates in Colorado but you might need to update the prices since it is over 2 years old.

 

[Ostrichsak]

D'oh!

Actually, scratch most all of that regarding our utility provider... I forgot we have electricity & water/waste water through the city here. Gas is provided by Xcel.

Maybe that's where the difference was. When I called the City they said no ToU and a few other things that weren't very solar friendly.

I actually just stopped by my neighbor's house who has solar panels. He wasn't home but I was talking about generalities with his wife about them and she had enough info to get me moving in the right direction on these again. She said that they have similar options as I described but the one where you get credited ends up being a small credit or bill each month and then at the end of the year they settle up so to speak. If you have a credit at the end of the year I guess they will cut a check. At least that's how she understood it.

IMO that's about the best possible way as it seems like a nice blend of the two options we were discussing earlier. Her husband is going to give me a call tonight to discuss the particulars so hopefully he verifies this is the case.

I think in the interim I'll call my city to ask them specifically of the details. Seems to make the most sense to go straight to the source.

 

[d21mike]

D'oh!

Actually, scratch most all of that regarding our utility provider... I forgot we have electricity & water/waste water through the city here. Gas is provided by Xcel.

Maybe that's where the difference was. When I called the City they said no ToU and a few other things that weren't very solar friendly.

I actually just stopped by my neighbor's house who has solar panels. He wasn't home but I was talking about generalities with his wife about them and she had enough info to get me moving in the right direction on these again. She said that they have similar options as I described but the one where you get credited ends up being a small credit or bill each month and then at the end of the year they settle up so to speak. If you have a credit at the end of the year I guess they will cut a check. At least that's how she understood it.

IMO that's about the best possible way as it seems like a nice blend of the two options we were discussing earlier. Her husband is going to give me a call tonight to discuss the particulars so hopefully he verifies this is the case.

I think in the interim I'll call my city to ask them specifically of the details. Seems to make the most sense to go straight to the source.

I recommend you watch these guys who installed 16kw (i think) and they have 3 power walls. Pretty sure they are in Colorado as well.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I recommend you watch these guys who installed 16kw (i think) and they have 3 power walls. Pretty sure they are in Colorado as well.

Pretty sure they're in this thread as well.

I've seen this video before but there's some rather substantial differences between their system/needs than ours & the devil is in the details with these sorts of things.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Update: I spoke with someone with the city last Friday and got some more details to shed some light or further confuse things. lol

For starers, our city rates are:
Winter $0.085/kWh
Summer $0.10/kWh

The good news is our rates are low so our bills are also low. The bad news is this makes it more difficult to recoup initial investment costs of our solar system. She also informed me that rates would increase 4.7% next year and likely even more the following year as we start to move to a higher renewable production model. Around 5% increase each year would certainly help to recoup solar investment costs quicker but that's difficult to predict for so I'd like this to all make sense w/o even factoring this in since it's unpredictable at this point since there's no guarantee of a ~5% increase each year. Heck, if our city gets onboard with solar/power packs we may even see an eventual decrease in costs.

Early in the conversation her opinion was that my estimate of production seemed low for the # of panels. She suggested I have Tesla "show me a PV watts output" before I make a decision. Does anyone have any thoughts here as to whether this is around what we should expect or not? I'll post a photo of the proposed layout so you can get an idea. We have no shade currently nor will we likely have any in the future either.

We also currently pay about $15/mo access fee which goes up to about $42/mo for our size array. She explained that a small portion of the monthly access fee was also built into the kWh rates historically so they increased this access fee for those who were going to solar since they wouldn't be recouping this fee spread out over usage. Makes sense. She said that they still run an ancient billing software that is DOS based (yikes!) and that they anticipated an update by the middle of next year. She said lots of changes and updates were coming once that is completed. As of now though there's no provisions for ToU.

They would install a bi-directional meter which measures how much you use and how much you send back. Retail value 1:1 is paid for what you send back. So 100% of what you produce is returned in terms of a credit. No wholesale buy-back the way I've seen others report. That seems like good news to me. She mentioned that within the next couple of years that 100% buyback would likely change to roughly a 2-cent per kWh difference decrease. That's still far less than what I've heard others report their wholesale buyback figure is so I'm still alright with that.

She did say though that it makes more sense if you can use the power you produce at the time of production rather than selling it back to them during the day and using at night. That part didn't make as much sense to me since 1:1 should mean that it would be a wash but she said it had something to do with the way the meter read and how their ancient system accounted for it. This part didn't make much sense to me. If anyone has a better understanding on this I'd appreciate a different approach to the summation of what that is. To me it seems like the choice to not add a Powerwall now is still the best move. She said that they would likely have ToU in the next few years at which point I'll revisit that decision.

If I'm using 1,800kWh/mo on average (taken from previous utility statements) and my production is roughly 1,100kWh/mo I'm putting my "savings" at somewhere around $75/mo which is a far cry from what I was originally estimating based on arbitrary figures since I didn't have real numbers. At that rate we're talking more in the realm of 20 years of so to pay off our initial investment or nearly double what I was estimating. The only difference is if our array produces more than estimated and does so consistently and if that ~5%/yr increase is also consistent. Those two things may lower that recovery period to about 15 years or so but that's still a long time.

I'm just not sure that this is the best solution for me unless there's something I'm missing here. Anyone care to add their input based on the above? Any insight that can be offered would be greatly appreciated.