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Newish 2020 SR, Inconsistent Wh/Mi and actual miles driven

Klia

Member
May 21, 2020
14
9
Bay Area
Under 500 miles right now. The "energy" graph in the car shows average 220wh/mi. But the car drops 10% battery each day for about 14 miles driven on local roads each day. AC is always on. But we are in the Bay Area and it's warm out here.

Puzzled on why the inconsistency: 220 wh/mi for SR should give me about 200+ miles from 90% charge to 0%. But looking at the real miles driven, it's way worse. 10% each date for 14 real miles is like 120 miles to go from 90% charge to 0%.

What am I missing? I am not doing Sentry Mode, and the car doesn't have FSD or Autopilot. The Wh/Mi looks pretty good actually, given we are not driving it hard. But why am I seeing worse actual miles. Is it because we turned on AC?
 

vsansal

Member
Oct 11, 2019
83
62
Arlington,VA
Is this a non stop drive for 14 miles or 14 miles total on multiple drives? What is your wh/mi consumption on those drives? Also did you try rebooting the car? It might not be going to sleep if there is something preventing it. Like are you checking it all the time through the app? What is the software version installed?
 

Klia

Member
May 21, 2020
14
9
Bay Area
Is this a non stop drive for 14 miles or 14 miles total on multiple drives? What is your wh/mi consumption on those drives? Also did you try rebooting the car? It might not be going to sleep if there is something preventing it. Like are you checking it all the time through the app? What is the software version installed?

One stop local driving (to and from work) for the 14 miles each day. about the same 220wh/wi on the drives. Rebooted the car last week. I check the app maybe 4-5 times a day. The latest software version: 2020.12.11.1
 

camalaio

Active Member
May 28, 2019
1,483
2,188
Vernon, BC, Canada
The energy graph and trip meters do not show energy consumption while not driving.

Any of the below could be a factor:
  • Preconditioning the cabin from the app (AC usage while not driving)
  • Cabin Overheat Protection (defaults to on w/ AC: if you park in sun, this will definitely drain the battery a bit)
  • Something keeping your car awake (which consumes ~300W): Did you sign up for third-party services like TeslaFi, Stats, etc.?
  • You forgot to close a door and the climate control stayed on longer than you expected (the doors are harder to close than a lot of cars, I still do this)
EDIT: Oh, Sentry Standby too, since I'm not sure if that's what you meant.
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
7,324
14,315
California
Short trips are crap for range. Your car is fine. It will use a percent or two per day whether driving or not just to keep things running, called “vampire drain”.

Enjoy the new ride!
 

vsansal

Member
Oct 11, 2019
83
62
Arlington,VA
One stop local driving (to and from work) for the 14 miles each day. about the same 220wh/wi on the drives. Rebooted the car last week. I check the app maybe 4-5 times a day. The latest software version: 2020.12.11.1

How long are you at work usually? Where do you park the car? Do you have cabin overheat protection turned on? When you say you check the app 4-5 times a day, is this when you are at work? That's a lot. You are preventing the car to go to deep sleep most likely. Do this, check if the cabin overheat protection is on, also try not to check the app when you are at work. Not even once. Let it sleep and see if that lowers the consumption. Also did you setup your car to connect to WiFi at work or home? Do you plug in when you get back home? Is it only unplugged at work?
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,171
14,182
San Diego
Under 500 miles right now. The "energy" graph in the car shows average 220wh/mi. But the car drops 10% battery each day for about 14 miles driven on local roads each day. AC is always on. But we are in the Bay Area and it's warm out here.

Puzzled on why the inconsistency: 220 wh/mi for SR should give me about 200+ miles from 90% charge to 0%. But looking at the real miles driven, it's way worse. 10% each date for 14 real miles is like 120 miles to go from 90% charge to 0%.

What am I missing? I am not doing Sentry Mode, and the car doesn't have FSD or Autopilot. The Wh/Mi looks pretty good actually, given we are not driving it hard. But why am I seeing worse actual miles. Is it because we turned on AC?

As mentioned by @camalaio, the trip meter does not count energy when in Park, and it can even lose count of energy in certain other special situations (sitting stationary when not in park and then going to park, for example).

For SR+, 2020, on the trip meter, you need to get about 198Wh/mi on the trip meter to make the rated range (Check my constants worksheet from a few months ago).

So at 220Wh/mi on the trip meter, with a 90% of 250 rated miles as a starting point, you'll get:

0.9*250rmi * 198Wh/rmi /220Wh/mi = 202.5 miles (to zero rated miles, which is not an empty battery, but it's not recommended to attempt to go further).

AC use while driving is included on the trip meter.

I think your losses are likely when you're parked. Just make a note of how many miles you lose while sitting.
 
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Klia

Member
May 21, 2020
14
9
Bay Area
This is OP. Just finished a longer trip with one stop for few hours (120 miles from 76% to 11%) AC on always. during the 2-3 hr stop, we used sentry mode but the percentage did not dip much at all. The trip meter shows 233Wh/mi.

So, real miles translates to about 186miles for 100% charge. Wh/mi Translates to 233miles.

Not happy with how the real miles are much lower than what wh/mi implies (which begs the usefulness of the energy graph and trip meter). And the significant other half is praising simplicity of ICE cars’ range and lower fill-up frequency and says we should cancel our MY order now and have at least one ICE car in our household.
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
7,324
14,315
California
This is OP. Just finished a longer trip with one stop for few hours (120 miles from 76% to 11%) AC on always. during the 2-3 hr stop, we used sentry mode but the percentage did not dip much at all. The trip meter shows 233Wh/mi.

So, real miles translates to about 186miles for 100% charge. Wh/mi Translates to 233miles.

Not happy with how the real miles are much lower than what wh/mi implies (which begs the usefulness of the energy graph and trip meter). And the significant other half is praising simplicity of ICE cars’ range and lower fill-up frequency and says we should cancel our MY order now and have at least one ICE car in our household.

You just took a nice long trip. Did you need more range? Did you spend any time sitting and charging that you wouldn’t have if you got the full 220 miles of rated range you expect?

What is the practical impact of your observation?

Sentry mode is well documented to use a significant amount of energy - around 1-2 miles of range per hour. So “percentage did not dip much at all” was still enough to impact your available range over 2-3 hours.

Basically, the answer is yes - if you expect a 1:1 rated to actual mile ratio and not getting that is a significant real or perceived problem for you or your SO, you probably bought the wrong car.
 
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Klia

Member
May 21, 2020
14
9
Bay Area
To ucmndd, thanks for the perspective. What I learned is that Tesla's range #s are wildly optimistic and cannot be trusted for real-life driving. I appreciate other members' confirmations like yours. Thank you. Yes, I hate the discrepancy and lack of usefulness on wh/mi #s, but love other aspects the car including acceleration and comfy seats.
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
7,324
14,315
California
For reference, I have a 2016 Model S with a current 100% rated range of 217 miles, so essentially the same as your SR.

I took a 178 mile drive today to a family member’s house, starting at 100% SoC and arriving with 7% left. No stops, 3 hours straight through, almost all freeway at 75mph in ~80 degree temps. So my “real world” range from that experiment is about 190 miles, almost exactly what you calculated from your trip today.

This experience has been pretty consistent across my entire 107,000 miles of ownership - I get between 0.8 and 0.9 miles of real range for each rated mile in mild to hot weather, driving however I want. Not sure I’d call that “wildly optimistic”, but optimistic nonetheless. That said, when is the last time you got the EPA rated fuel economy in an ICE car? I think the 80-90% metric is a much more realistic expectation and once you orient yourself to it and manage your trips accordingly, you will have a much better and more peaceful ownership experience.

Again - consider the practical impact. In almost all cases, there isn’t one. You plug in at night and start with a full tank every morning. Truly magic. ;)
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
11,526
13,428
Riverside Co. CA
This is OP. Just finished a longer trip with one stop for few hours (120 miles from 76% to 11%) AC on always. during the 2-3 hr stop, we used sentry mode but the percentage did not dip much at all. The trip meter shows 233Wh/mi.

So, real miles translates to about 186miles for 100% charge. Wh/mi Translates to 233miles.

Not happy with how the real miles are much lower than what wh/mi implies (which begs the usefulness of the energy graph and trip meter). And the significant other half is praising simplicity of ICE cars’ range and lower fill-up frequency and says we should cancel our MY order now and have at least one ICE car in our household.

Remind your "significant other half" that, unless you road trip every day, your tesla will start each day with a "full tank" and there will be no "trips to the gas station" every 3-4-5 days depending on how you drive.

"The simplicity of ICE range" is basically a couched way to say "range anxiety" for longer trips.... I get it, but people usually get over that, and they also dont take 200 mile trips every day. "lower fill up frequency" goes to an EV with home charging (hopefully you have that, if you dont, you are losing one of the biggest benefits of owning this car imo).

The statement I normally make when people start talking about "fill up frequency" is: " for regular commute usage, picture having a gas pump in your garage that pumped gas into your car while you slept... so you always leave the house with however much gas you wanted to, without having to make any additional trips to go get it."

A road trip is different and requires a bit more planning, that is true. Depending on where you are, its a non issue though, and your location says "bay area" so there is no shortage of superchargers for anywhere here up and down california.

I get the range anxiety, like I said. My wife still has an ICE vehicel (its leased). Not sure what I will do when her X3 comes off lease. We have put around 4500 miles on her X3, leased in January of 2019. Conversely, my Model 3p, purchased about 3 weeks before we leased her X3 in December of 2018, has almost 23k miles on it. She doesnt have a job outside the house, so the original plan was for me to split driving between the two cars, keeping the mileage even on both of them.

After purchasing my model 3 however, I only drive her car very rarely... and never to work which is an 80 mile round trip. I like mine too much, and hers is a fully loaded X3 M40 (so no slouch of a car). It has all the driver assistance stuff (all optional) that BMW sells, and the tesla versions are much better to me... although I enjoy driving my car so much I dont normally use the FSD stuff I paid for.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,171
14,182
San Diego
This is OP. Just finished a longer trip with one stop for few hours (120 miles from 76% to 11%) AC on always. during the 2-3 hr stop, we used sentry mode but the percentage did not dip much at all. The trip meter shows 233Wh/mi.

So, real miles translates to about 186miles for 100% charge. Wh/mi Translates to 233miles.

Not happy with how the real miles are much lower than what wh/mi implies (which begs the usefulness of the energy graph and trip meter). And the significant other half is praising simplicity of ICE cars’ range and lower fill-up frequency and says we should cancel our MY order now and have at least one ICE car in our household.

I guess you have an SR, not an SR+? (You I did say SR so I guess so.) Can’t really make sense of your numbers otherwise.

What are your available miles at 100%?

As far as I know, you need to get about 198Wh/rmi to get mile per rated mile “parity” on the SR. However, data is limited on the SR (this is the number from the SR+, but it “should” be the same).

So everything makes sense. Seems like getting 185 miles out of a car rated for 220 is perfectly normal.

I don’t really agree with the comparisons to ICE fuel economy here - I’ve always got basically exactly what was rated with my ICE vehicles. But I do agree that if you didn’t have to stop to charge, the discrepancy in real-world vs. rated range are inconsequential for the most part.

It is something to keep in mind when calculating operating costs of course.

Having an ICE vehicle in reserve seems perfectly fine as a strategy. I wouldn’t buy a new one though. Personally I have an ICE vehicle in reserve (Toyota Highlander). Unfortunately it is broken right now (ABS system has failed, though it is perfectly drivable aside from incessant beeping and the wheels locking up in an emergency). Fortunately I have backup vehicles so I can figure out how to fix it on my own schedule.
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
7,324
14,315
California
I don’t really agree with the comparisons to ICE fuel economy here - I’ve always got basically exactly what was rated with my ICE vehicles.
...
Personally I have an ICE vehicle in reserve (Toyota Highlander).

Lol, that’s funny, as my most recent in a long line of ICE rated fuel economy fantasies was a 2015 highlander AWD. 21 mpg combined rating, we averaged 19.0 over 80,000 miles of ~50/50 highway/city driving.

So about a 10% miss... similar to what I see in real world conditions with my EV.

Guess your mileage really will vary. ;)
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,171
14,182
San Diego
Lol, that’s funny, as my most recent in a long line of ICE rated fuel economy fantasies was a 2015 highlander AWD. 21 mpg combined rating, we averaged 19.0 over 80,000 miles of ~50/50 highway/city driving.

So about a 10% miss... similar to what I see in real world conditions with my EV.

Guess your mileage really will vary. ;)
Partially take back what I said...I have averaged about 26mpg on nearly entirely freeway driving at 80mph in the Highlander Hybrid Limited “POS.” The rating for highway is 27mpg. So a little short.

But to me that seems very reasonable given that it is very clear from experience it gets pretty much 27mpg if I drive at 55-65 in any sort of traffic.

Anyway, yes, YMMV. I’m just saying that in “winter” and summer, much better consistency in the ICE, in my experience. And a better match to the rating. Of course, that’s what I would expect - a really efficient vehicle is going to have very high sensitivity to the exact conditions. So in an ICE everything matters less.
 
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