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News about Tesla that caught fire while charging in PA

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I think the real issue is EV fires burn longer and are MUCH harder to put out.

Yeah this is a thing, at least in my opinion. IF batteries catch fire, they are much harder to put out as they have their own fuel and a lot of it, and smothering them doesnt appear to work real well.

As for "What can I do to protect myself", other than parking outside if someone is concerned about this, I dont see worrying about this as an issue. I mean, people get struck by lightning all the time (for example) but other than taking a few precautions like not doing certain things in the middle of a storm, we dont walk around paranoid about it.

People are much more likely to get in a serious accident on their way driving to work than they are to have their car spontaneously catch fire, but just about every TESLA that catches fire you will hear about in the news. A BMW catches fire, its likely in the local news for that area. A Tesla catches fire, its going to make international blogs / news. Its just how it is.
 
Correct! Before EV times, gasoline cars couldn't plugin but they have still spontaneously combusted without plugging in:

BMW denied their cars caught fire for the longest time.


BMW fire recall number is freaking huge...

 
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Tesla also has spontaneous fires while parking without plugging in too. There was a famous video clip from China garage and lots of people couldn't believe it. That prompted Tesla to mess around with Model S battery via software and resulted in a class-action suit.

But it's still very rare with Tesla.

It's more popular with GM Bolt because of its battery design. It chooses pouch cells. They are fine when new but as they get older, the metal caps start to poke on the plastic pouch and cause shorts, heat, and fire.

Tesla does not have that problem because both the caps and the body are metals in a cylindrical design.


Pouch cells have been used in EV's for over a decade without significant issue. The problem with the Bolt isn't age related, it is a combination of two separate manufacturing defects, if you have BOTH defects in one cell it can lead to a higher chance of a battery fire. It is actually more common in the newer Bolts (2019+) than it was in the 2017 and 2018. There have been a whopping 12 battery fire cases with the Bolt and GM decided to get out in front of it, rather than get a black eye from trying to deny the problem exists. Compare that with over 2,000 ignition switch fires in Fords before they had a recall.

Keith
 
Along the lines of BMW, As mysterious BMW fires continue, calls for investigation into possible causes grow written in Feb 2019 says:
"The luxury automaker wasn't the only vehicle producer to take that step. Car manufacturers collectively have issued 62 parked-car-fire-related recalls since 2017. Just last month, for example, Hyundai and Kia recalled 168,000 vehicles for fire risk."

And, in 2017 there was BMW recalls 1 million vehicles over fire risk.
It is mind boggling that news like this doesn't get one whiff of air time yet one blip about Tesla and its holy *sugar* batman we have a problem!
 
It is mind boggling that news like this doesn't get one whiff of air time yet one blip about Tesla and its holy *sugar* batman we have a problem!
What's even worse is that as a Bolt owner for almost 3 years now, we've been seeing all sorts of bans on Bolt parking:

It's even extended to my work. :( I have no other car. I've pushed back citing all sorts of other examples of non-EVs being recalled for catching fire while off and having done so + the stats like at No more buy-backs I was told today and examples like If you own one of these cars, vans or SUVs, don’t park them in a garage, automaker says "Two weeks ago, Hyundai and Kia alerted the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration about a rare but dangerous defect discovered in 10 Hyundai Elantras that caught fire while parked and off.". Still have seen no signs they will relax it.

I offered to park on the roof of our parking structure (parking only, no offices or rooms underneath) or surface lot away from others and buildings. Office turnout is still super low due to COVID WFH. I've seen that our security has been flagging Bolts if they see any and reporting them to powers that be. I wouldn't be surprised if some anti-EV group like the fossil fuel industry is behind this garbage and spreading FUD.

The problem is that it will take a very long time to replace the packs. GM's is replacing packs on all '17 to '19 out of caution since they have no reliable way of identifying which packs contain defective cells (they've maintained that they estimate 1% of the vehicles have the defect). For '20 to '22, they said they will try to replace only defective modules if they can find a validated way to identify those and replace just those. But, for now, the recall procedures call for both to receive entire replacement packs (w/the same part number for both).

There are somewhere between 140K to 160K Bolts in the world (some unsold and can't be due to stop sale). GM hasn't ever sold over 50K Bolts in a year. It's unclear how how much battery production can be ramped up.

They're prioritizing replacements by which ones they believe may have clusters of defects and charging habits. We've been given no ETA but since I have a US pack '19 Bolt, I could be waiting over a year. '19 Korean-made pack Bolts seem to be the riskiest, followed by '17. For the rest, we don't know.
 
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What's even worse is that as a Bolt owner for almost 3 years now, we've been seeing all sorts of bans on Bolt parking:

It's even extended to my work. :( I have no other car. I've pushed back citing all sorts of other examples of non-EVs being recalled for catching fire while off and having done so + the stats like at No more buy-backs I was told today and examples like If you own one of these cars, vans or SUVs, don’t park them in a garage, automaker says "Two weeks ago, Hyundai and Kia alerted the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration about a rare but dangerous defect discovered in 10 Hyundai Elantras that caught fire while parked and off.". Still have seen no signs they will relax it.

I offered to park on the roof of our parking structure (parking only, no offices or rooms underneath) or surface lot away from others and buildings. Office turnout is still super low due to COVID WFH. I've seen that our security has been flagging Bolts if they see any and reporting them to powers that be. I wouldn't be surprised if some anti-EV group like the fossil fuel industry is behind this garbage and spreading FUD.

The problem is that it will take a very long time to replace the packs. GM's is replacing packs on all '17 to '19 out of caution since they have no reliable way of identifying which packs contain defective cells (they've maintained that they estimate 1% of the vehicles have the defect). For '20 to '22, they said they will try to replace only defective modules if they can find a validated way to identify those and replace just those. But, for now, the recall procedures call for both to receive entire replacement packs (w/the same part number for both).

There are somewhere between 140K to 160K Bolts in the world (some unsold and can't be due to stop sale). GM hasn't ever sold over 50K Bolts in a year. It's unclear how how much battery production can be ramped up.

They're prioritizing replacements by which ones they believe may have clusters of defects and charging habits. We've been given no ETA but since I have a US pack '19 Bolt, I could be waiting over a year. '19 Korean-made pack Bolts seem to be the riskiest, followed by '17. For the rest, we don't know.
Yeah, at first I thought it was a little funny when a local garage banned Bolts, but then I started to think through the odds and implications.

The risk isn't necessarily that high and the move is really unfair to people who take the appropriate steps to mitigate the risk. It is also completely uneven since it doesn't apply to other cars with active recalls due to fire risk.

And once the recalls start, how do they know the fixed ones from the unfixed?

Anyway, I hope you find a solution and that it doesn't take too long for them to get you a better battery pack.
 
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Just saw this on my feed and got concerned:


I usually leave my MY plugged in overnight in the garage and will be traveling this coming weekend. Never before really worries but reading this got a bit concerned. Any ideas what could cause something like this while the MY is charging? Anything that I can do to double check if all looks fine? TIA!
Probably best to wait and see what an investigation says. Might be some kid was smoking in the car and left a lit one smoldering on the seat. Many things can start a vehicle on fire that have nothing to do with the car but plenty to do with what the people do inside and leave inside.
 
You can do a google search for any car make + "fire recall" and see results within the last 3 years. A lot of those fires happen due to some design flaw or defect that causes a short to start the car fire, so is not always related to the fuel system (for ICE cars). Some of those recalls are from a tail light shorting out and causing the fire, or a cruise control module doing the same.

I think the biggest fire risk from charging an Tesla is the outlet and wiring. If the wiring or any connections from the breaker panel to the outlet are undersized or loose, they will heat up or cause arcing. I'd say the only thing you can do is have an electrician look over the charging circuit components or monitor it with an infrared camera while charging to make sure no part gets too hot. Make sure the outlet is a high quality industrial model like the one Tesla recommends in their Mobile Connector manuals.
 
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Just saw this on my feed and got concerned:


I usually leave my MY plugged in overnight in the garage and will be traveling this coming weekend. Never before really worries but reading this got a bit concerned. Any ideas what could cause something like this while the MY is charging? Anything that I can do to double check if all looks fine? TIA!

The best way to protect yourself is the same way you would protect any high power appliance from fires.

Make sure the electrical wiring, and circuits are appropriately sized.
Make sure all the connections (including junction box) are solid.
A permanent connection, such as a Tesla Wall Charger (or whatever they call it now) is safer than a universal mobile connector. Mainly because the UMC can be unplugged and plugged in repeatedly wearing on the contacts.


EV fires, in garages or on the roads happen less often than ICE vehicle fires. You only hear about them more often because they get air time in the media, where ICE fires rarely do.
 
Yeah this is a thing, at least in my opinion. IF batteries catch fire, they are much harder to put out as they have their own fuel and a lot of it, and smothering them doesnt appear to work real well.

As for "What can I do to protect myself", other than parking outside if someone is concerned about this, I dont see worrying about this as an issue. I mean, people get struck by lightning all the time (for example) but other than taking a few precautions like not doing certain things in the middle of a storm, we dont walk around paranoid about it.

People are much more likely to get in a serious accident on their way driving to work than they are to have their car spontaneously catch fire, but just about every TESLA that catches fire you will hear about in the news. A BMW catches fire, its likely in the local news for that area. A Tesla catches fire, its going to make international blogs / news. Its just how it is.
For the record, its winter and I keep my MY inside and plugged in. I'm not saying the risk is high, just pointing out facts
 
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Tesla is also against LIDAR... what is your point?

Keith

I guess your point is: If Tesla is wrong about anti-LIDAR, then it can be wrong about anti-pouch cells.

The issue here is that we see more fires in GM Bolt than in Tesla, so Tesla may be right in avoiding pouch cells.

On the other hand, when talking about LIDAR, Tesla's system has more fatalities, injuries, and collisions than LIDAR's system. So Tesla might be wrong in avoiding LIDAR.

My point is Tesla is not perfect: It can be right in something but wrong in others (like increasing the solar price after signing contracts).

I need to be objective even if I have a Tesla Cult Membership Certificate.
 
I guess your point is: If Tesla is wrong about anti-LIDAR, then it can be wrong about anti-pouch cells.

The issue here is that we see more fires in GM Bolt than in Tesla, so Tesla may be right in avoiding pouch cells.

On the other hand, when talking about LIDAR, Tesla's system has more fatalities, injuries, and collisions than LIDAR's system. So Tesla might be wrong in avoiding LIDAR.

My point is Tesla is not perfect: It can be right in something but wrong in others (like increasing the solar price after signing contracts).

I need to be objective even if I have a Tesla Cult Membership Certificate.

You are actually acting reasonably here, but 12 fires in 4 years is a non-issue that has been blown up to a "world shaking problem" by the media... it isn't a pouch cell problem, it is manufacturing defect problem (and a media problem). Two separate flaws that if one cell has BOTH flaws results in a higher risk of fire. A problem this small in an ICE car from Chevrolet would not even be subject to recall... but Chevy knows how the media treats EV fires so they are spending billions of dollars to solve a non-issue and suing their battery supplier to try and mitigate that cost.

Keith
 
How much does everyone think/worry about this? What could this person have done to cause this...anything?


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