Next gen Roadster

[richkae]

I dont think Tesla will use carbon fiber again in the near future.
I believe any cars on the Bluestar platform will be made out of the same material.

I think that any cars on the platform will share as many body panels and stampings as possible. Perhaps cosmetic shapes will be different, but all the pieces that contribute to structure and wheelbase will be the same.

There is no reason to think they would offer a car with 2 motors. Their core expertise is in the motor, PEM and battery, so I would expect them to be able to offer more powerful versions of any/all of those ( whichever is the weak link ) to achieve greater performance.

I would love to see a car with 2 motors - one for each rear wheel, so that a differential is not necessary, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[TEG]

Usually shy away from making predictions, but:
Due to need to keep costs and size down, I would predict "Blue Star" could be less than 300 mile range, unless we get some major energy storage breakthrough production ready in the next few years.
(Ultracaps anyone?)

So, I would say 200 mile range prediction for the sedan.
Now, a new Roadster would probably want to have at least as much range as the old, so they could trade those back seats for more batteries, and charge a bit more for Roadster compared to the sedan, so 300 mile range for the Roadster...

Do we think the next gen Roadster would be a true 2 seater (like a Porsche Cayman for instance), or have small back seats like a Porsche Carrera?

 

[TEG]

I dont think Tesla will use carbon fiber again in the near future...

I agree. Tesla is investing in metal stamping expertise and capability at their new factory.
Now, I heard that Blue Star might be steel instead of aluminum. That makes me hesitate. I think Tesla gets some positive response from doing the Model S with so much aluminum, and it is a good weight saving aid, so it might still (IMHO) be worth considering for "Blue Star" even if it hurts a little from the budget / cost standpoint.

 

[Mycroft]

My ideal Roadster would have tiny back seats like the Mercedes SL series or the Carrera. They're good for "emergency" transportation of passengers, but mainly they're great for storing laptops, satchels, bags, shopping, etc. without having to always be going into the trunk. I don't know about the Carrera, but the SL is too wide. I'd prefer a narrower car. They'll probably make it wider though; both for safety and for battery storage.

 

[TEG]

I keep voting for narrow too - mainly for parking in compact spaces, and navigating narrow/twisty mountain roads.

I heard that sometimes cars have "vestigial" rear seats for insurance reasons. I read a few places that cars classified as having back seats tend to have lower insurance rates.

 

[doug]

I think the wheelbase of the 3-series is still too long for what I'd prefer in a roadster.

 

[AnOutsider]

Do we think the next gen Roadster would be a true 2 seater (like a Porsche Cayman for instance), or have small back seats like a Porsche Carrera?

I think there will be back seats, even if they are small (actually I think I remember Elon making reference to something like this)

 

[TEG]

I think the wheelbase of the 3-series is still too long for what I'd prefer in a roadster.

...Me too... (Having owned X 1/9 and MR2 in the past...)

 

[Norbert]

Batteries will be improved by 2015/2016, so I'd expect they will be able to offer a 300 mile option for the new Roadster as well as for Bluestar. The new Roadster won't be as small as the old one, it will allow at least children to sit in a proper 2nd row.

One could argue a 300 mile option is too expensive for the Bluestar, but I think those spending $30k on a car may still be interested in a 300 mile option, not only those who spend $50k. I wouldn't expect Tesla to have a price-driven upper limit on range options, and I think demand will still be there. There seem to be a good number of those who'd like 300 miles, but not necessarily want to spend $70k on a luxury sedan. Though regarding that, I could imagine that Tesla will own the californian luxury sedan market in 5-10 years.

And the new Roadster battery prices will benefit from them being sold in the Bluestar as well.

 

[doug]

If there are back seats, then it's not really a roadster in my book.

 

[Norbert]

I don't know if they are perhaps planning two sports cars, but (at least) one is said to have a second row somewhat larger than a Porsche. I think the design-plans for these cars are already further along than it may seem.

 

[richkae]

The BMW 740i is 5400 pounds
The Audi A8 is 4400 pounds ( all aluminum )
The Model S is 3825 pounds ( including 1000 pound battery ).
It seems reasonable that using aluminum over steel saves at least 1000 pounds in the Model S.
Or about 20% lighter. That may not mean 20% more range at highway speeds, but it is probably 20% for the city cycle.

So that 1000 pounds savings costs about $1200 in raw materials ( more expensive aluminum ).
How much additional expense is there in working with the material?

Lets say the smaller Bluestar is 3200 pounds, but would be 4000 if made of steel, so the aluminum saves it 800 pounds.
About 20% more battery is certainly going to cost more than $1000

If they can reuse the machinery for working aluminum that they already have for the Model S - this simplified analysis makes me think they should use aluminum in the Bluestar.

 

[brucedp]

S-based gen-2 Tesla Roadster in 2014

See
Electric Vehicle Discussion List - EVLN: S-based gen-2 Tesla Roadster in 2014










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{brucedp.150m.com}

 

[smoothoperator]

pretty sure the new roadster will be Mercedes SL/ Jaguar XK sized, and will compete in this luxury tourer segment.


Slightly off-topic question but When Tesla made the statment that the Roadster 2.5 would reflect the future of Tesla design language, what exactly were they referring to? I see very little Roadster design language in the Model S? Were they talking about the vent in the bumper of the Model S which kinda looks like the vent on the 2.5's bumper? Or was it purely the logo change? Maybe a future vehicle?

 

[SByer]

My predictions:
~70kWh battery pack. The current Roadster isn't as efficient as a car of it's size could be, but I'm betting they want at least a 350mi range in it.
Aluminum body. That's what the equipment at the plant is good at. CF just hasn't made the manufacturing strides needed to make it worth it - just not a marquee justify-the-price kind of item.
<3.2 second 0-60 times. Go big or go home. But still one motor in back.
Liquid cooled motor/PEM - trackable(ish).
Vestigal back seats (not that I'd want them - I still say the 911 is just too darned big). And a real convertible (with the skateboard platform this should be easy).

But I sure hope the seats are such that one's ass is right on the batteries - as low to the pavement as possible.

Don't need or care about power steering (but it'll probably have it, sigh).

 

[TEG]

...Don't need or care about power steering (but it'll probably have it, sigh).

We like manual because it is so "pure" with unadulterated road feel.
But tight turns in parking lots aren't its' strong suit.
Electric power steering generally gets rid of some of the old hydraulic issues.
So, maybe Tesla can "do it right" and get low speed assist without compromising road feel?

 

[Mycroft]

Here's the back seat of the Ferrari California. This is what I'm talking about. Just enough room for tossing a laptop or a couple of grocery bags. :biggrin:

More photos of that car HERE. That is one awesome vehicle! Except for the ICE, it's a perfect sports car IMO. Sleek lines and retractable hardtop. It just doesn't get any better looking.

 

[TEG]

Speaking of Ferrari:
Tesla in Toronto awaiting orders - The Globe and Mail

 

[vfx]

I hope that Carbon Fiber is not dead for Tesla. It is the future and Elon is always pushing the limits there.

The design language starts with the Model S. The Roadster was done before Franz started with the company (though he did the new 2.5 front end.

Elon said the next sports car would have a back seat a la Porsche. Can't find the quote but it's a safe bet since they are always in his sights.

I like to imagine a Lotus Evora with Franz' touch.

 

[doug]

So a sportscar, probably a convertible, but not a roadster.