freeewilly
Member
What do you mean? You get more CARB credits due to charge rate? Or you're saying Tesla is going to sell more cars.
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Next generation 2170 cell battery packs
- Thread starter Cloxxki
- Start date
What do you mean? You get more CARB credits due to charge rate? Or you're saying Tesla is going to sell more cars.
5 ZEV credits are tied in being able to 95% refuel in 15 minutes or less.
BluestarE3
Active Member
Basically, yes. That's the reason hydrogen fuel cell and battery swapping get more credits.
Tesla’s upcoming ‘Supercharger V3’ is the last piece of the EV adoption puzzle – and means more ZEV credits
freeewilly
Member
Well, Tesla is able to get 5 ZEV credits already, all Tesla are able to swap battery. As long as Tesla keeps one battery swap station open
Nope, Tesla closed the battery swap station after the rules were changed to remove the battery swap option to get the extra credits.
Reeler
Decade of Pure EV Driving
I bet a 75KW battery that is software limited to 60KW could charge to 95% in 15 minutes with a 350KW+ SuperCharger. The extra CARB credits would encourage them to offer a 120KW battery software limited to 100KW. Perhaps the extra capacity could be selectively unlocked for the P and L models to maximize both ends of the equation.
It's all about energy density. First by volume, then by weight. One comes with the other when making small advancements.
A maximum 2170 pack for S&X is not going to weigh much if anything more than the current 100 pack.
Consider that the 100 pack is fully stuffed. 2170's offer the same dimensional coverage, + 5mm = 7.7%. But, the bigger cells consist of less wrapper and more internal. On balance, a 125-130kWh pack from 2170's may end up slight lighter than the present 100kWh.
As energy density rises and costs decline, software limited SOC levels seem logical. They'd result in better battery life, among other things, not to mention faster charging. The only question is how soon there will be good enough cell density/costs to justify such an approach.
Reeler
Decade of Pure EV Driving
The extra CARB credits in those states are worth more than the cost of 20kw of battery.
...As long as they last. Once Tesla succeeds, the CCS crowd will have theirs (their spec is done even though it has not been built) and soon those credits will disappear. IN the meantime Tesla will benefit pretty well from being ahead of the pack.
Reeler
Decade of Pure EV Driving
Why would Tesla design a 350KW+ SC if that energy could not be absorbed by the pack?
Software limited 60's already exist today. They don't charge to the limits of even the 120kW Superchargers, much less a 350.
Are you suggesting that Tesla's packs all along have been capable of several times their current C-rates, and Tesla has just been sandbagging?
Reeler
Decade of Pure EV Driving
No. As I say above, I think there will be new packs that have extra capacity on top software locked so that a 350KW+ charger can get to 95% in 15 minutes. For example, one way to do this would be to have a 100KW will actually have a 120KW so that the slow topping off can be avoided. Not sure if that is the route Tesla will go, but it is achievable today with a new pack design presuming that much power can be absorbed.
Fisker is threatening higher charge rate batteries (graphene enhanced?) for affordable BEVs.
In the lab is may exist already. Not sure anyway has a cell or unit that delivers half what marketeers and even scientists are promising. Let alone something that can be made at $100/kWh.
In the lab is may exist already. Not sure anyway has a cell or unit that delivers half what marketeers and even scientists are promising. Let alone something that can be made at $100/kWh.
Reeler
Decade of Pure EV Driving
You must be right then that the 350KW+ is unusable in a new battery design (the topic of this thread). EM is a crazy liar.
I'm simply pointing out that your assertion that: "there will be new packs that have extra capacity on top software locked..." is already the case.You must be right then that the 350KW+ is unusable in a new battery design (the topic of this thread). EM is a crazy liar.
And as has been pointed out to you previously where you've suggested that simply higher voltages provide faster charging, it's the battery chemistry that matters here.
Tesla has admittedly been playing the game of (very) incremental gains. The 2170 development is largely a matter of packaging, not chemistry. All Tesla have brought to market size the 2012 85kWh pack, is the 90kWh pack with the same amount of cells. The 100kWh uses these same cells, just more of them.
2170 is to bring (if any) an incremental chemistry change. A pack will need to be much bigger than 100kWh to merely utilize HALF of the mentioned 350kW CCS charge rate.
But, the announced Tesla truck may well come with 150kWh. Especially when they startbeing forced to reduce the markup on packs. If Tesla and competition produce at say $100/kWh, it will no longer fly to sell packs or upgrades at large multiples. 20-30% markup seems healthy enough. Which other car company can make half of a car and add such a markup?
2170 is to bring (if any) an incremental chemistry change. A pack will need to be much bigger than 100kWh to merely utilize HALF of the mentioned 350kW CCS charge rate.
But, the announced Tesla truck may well come with 150kWh. Especially when they startbeing forced to reduce the markup on packs. If Tesla and competition produce at say $100/kWh, it will no longer fly to sell packs or upgrades at large multiples. 20-30% markup seems healthy enough. Which other car company can make half of a car and add such a markup?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
That's not what he's saying. The 350kW does not necessarily imply a high C-rate. That is only a limitation you imposed because of trying to meet the 95% in 15 minute spec (which Tesla did not indicate they will try to reach).You must be right then that the 350KW+ is unusable in a new battery design (the topic of this thread). EM is a crazy liar.
They can have a 175kWh battery and something like 2C charge rate (burst) for 350kW, which would be more realistic.
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