Next "version" of Model S

[DocZ]

I have to say I'm pretty surprised that no major updates are coming to the S, imo it's getting stale and the price tag is no longer justifiable with the Model 3 launching. Things like retracting door handles, 30 miles of extra range, are not worth $100k+.

The recent drive unit upgrades are nice, but again don't justify the insane price tag of the higher end model. Any thoughts as to when an upgrade will happen?

 

[fasteddie7]

It seems like Tesla is taking the incremental approach, much like “model year” ICE vehicles. From year to year it seems like small changes but every 4 to 5 years it looks and feels launch different.

 

[gavine]

Why does BMW have a 7 series when the 3 series is so popular? People still want premium vehicles and the S is premium. The Model 3 is not. Granted, the S will likely lose buyers to the Model 3, and a new version of the S would help, but I don't think the Model 3 impact on the S will be too great.

 

[HabitualUser]

It brings up a good point that isn't talked about much. How many have "stretched" financially to buy a Model S? I don't have data, but it seems like a decent percentage would, being how desirable it is as the only high-performance EV on the market the last few years. These types of buyers will obviously choose the less expensive Model 3.

 

[dhanson865]

Model Y is supposed to be the revamp from 12v to 48v or whatever low voltage system they choose (reduce wiring, increase efficiency, reduce cost). Once the settle on the 48v or whatever they choose and get those parts in play I'd expect S and X to get a rework to get the same advantages.

Other than that any change is cosmetic. I'm fine with how the outside of the car looks now. I wasn't a big fan of the bubble front of the old Model S. The new front seems fine to me, no reason to change any time soon.

 

[Tdriver]

I think a lot of Model S owners are going to find the 3 lacking in the little things they are used to.....hence the S will continue to look good with 300 + miles of range, great acceleration, roominess, and luxury touches.

 

[b team]

It brings up a good point that isn't talked about much. How many have "stretched" financially to buy a Model S? I don't have data, but it seems like a decent percentage would, being how desirable it is as the only high-performance EV on the market the last few years. These types of buyers will obviously choose the less expensive Model 3.

I consider myself someone who "stretched" to buy an S. But I disagree that I would "obviously" buy a 3 instead once they are available. The two cars are completely different. While a 3 is supposedly 90% the size of an S, that is an unacceptably small space in the backseat for my purposes. Also, an S has a massive hatchback with seats that fold flat. An 3 is a midsize car with a tiny trunk. That's great for people who need that but it's not what I need--no matter how cheap it is.

 

[DocZ]

I think a lot of Model S owners are going to find the 3 lacking in the little things they are used to.....hence the S will continue to look good with 300 + miles of range, great acceleration, roominess, and luxury touches.

What luxury touches?

I think the argument of the BMW 7 series vs 3 series doesn't make sense. The 7 series is a true luxury car that is noticeably superior to the 3 series. The S is a little bigger, slightly more range, slightly more acceleration, and basically same interior...don't get me wrong, I think it's superior to the 3, but not worth $100k+

 

[skitown]

What luxury touches?

I think the argument of the BMW 7 series vs 3 series doesn't make sense. The 7 series is a true luxury car that is noticeably superior to the 3 series. The S is a little bigger, slightly more range, slightly more acceleration, and basically same interior...don't get me wrong, I think it's superior to the 3, but not worth $100k+

I'm not sure the "$100k+" comment is fair given that the Model S currently starts at $69,500 + $1200 destination, pre-incentives. Your overall argument may or may not be valid regardless, but I'd say we should start with the correct base price and reason up from there.

 

[DocZ]

I'm not sure the "$100k+" comment is fair given that the Model S currently starts at $69,500 + $1200 destination, pre-incentives. Your overall argument may or may not be valid regardless, but I'd say we should start with the correct base price and reason up from there.

Arguments specifically about the high end version of the S, as there is little to differentiate it from the 3 other than range and acceleration. The gap between an S 75D and a 3 is much more reasonable.

 

[ucmndd]

Arguments specifically about the high end version of the S, as there is little to differentiate it from the 3 other than range and acceleration.

At the high end of the S range you're paying (substantially) for performance. Supercar performance, mind you.

 

[skitown]

Arguments specifically about the high end version of the S, as there is little to differentiate it from the 3 other than range and acceleration. The gap between an S 75D and a 3 is much more reasonable.

Ahh, I glossed over that, apologies. I have a first day Model 3 reservation, and being a Model S owner I *hope* I'm able to get a highly optioned Model 3 sometime in early 2018. (??) By highly optioned, I mean at least the largest battery and AWD, I guess; and if I want a performance version it will likely be a fair bit longer by the sounds of things. In my mind, the highly optioned Model 3 timeline is what this thought exercise should probably use as a guiding light for when Tesla needs to further differentiate the Model S; which is available for purchase today. On the other hand, gross margins on all these vehicles may guide the timelines more than we realize. A highly optioned performance Model 3 could have very nice gross margins, thus making product cannibalization less of a big deal.

 

[ahkahn]

Doubt there will be any redesigns on the S any time soon.... They just did it last year, the year prior they did the X, they've got the 3 coming out (so no design work has been done on the S since last year), they still have the Y and Semi coming out, and then it will be time to update the X again, then the S. And all of that assumes no other new product coming out.... my guess is that their design team has their hands full with the pipeline for the next several years.

 

[JCB_Arizona]

Maybe their big plan is to significantly change the S/X lineup when the 7500 tax credit dries up? Possibly mid/late 2018? Gives people a reason to spend the extra 7500?

 

[geometro]

I'm not sure the "$100k+" comment is fair given that the Model S currently starts at $69,500 + $1200 destination, pre-incentives. Your overall argument may or may not be valid regardless, but I'd say we should start with the correct base price and reason up from there.

Fair point, but then let's say $35k as the delta. Outside of the size, speed and two screens, what is considered luxury for the price difference?
Not being cheeky, I genuinely want to know what people think.

 

[skitown]

Fair point, but then let's say $35k as the delta. Outside of the size, speed and two screens, what is considered luxury for the price difference?
Not being cheeky, I genuinely want to know what people think.

I can't speak for others, and I've yet to experience a Model 3 in person, let alone be able to purchase one. I think it's early days still. "Luxury" isn't something I put much of a premium on personally, so I'll let someone else take a crack at that. For me, there is real value in the Model S's beauty, size, utility, performance, (perhaps due to size) safety, etc. over the Model 3. The creature comforts ("luxury"?) are likely secondary. I will own both for a reason, however. They will serve different use cases for me. Time will tell how Tesla wants to differentiate these product lines.

 

[PeterHG]

Great points all around, and of course, none of us really know. But on the question of price delta, we need to look at the post-incentive difference. All of us who own a Model S got a $7500 federal credit that's going to disappear before any new Model 3 orders are fulfilled. So the difference between today's S and tomorrow's 3 (starting with geometro's numbers) is $27,500.

Of course, different time comparisons are appropriate for different buyers. My $27,500 is the correct number for somebody ordering an S or 3 today.

My guess is that when both are on the market and available with approximately the same lead time, the price of the S will have to come down, or the S will need to be substantially upgraded from where it is today.

 

[Carl]

I for one agree with the OP. The reason the MS is a success is because it was the first beautiful and powerful EV with a great range and a SuperCharger network. Throw in the M3 which has the same qualities, and more or less the only difference left between MS and M3, apart from luggage space, is "luxury" (quod non, if we want to be honest). Tesla probably won't be cutting 20% off the price of the MS tomorrow so what I would expect in the coming months is a refresh really taking the MS into the luxury class, or at least differentiating it more from the M3.

(Of course there will always be a market for the MS as a supercar, but that market will probably shrink - AutoPilot on a P100DL does 0-100km/h around ten times slower than the car is capable of, and so will FSD I presume... ).

 

[SeminoleFSU]

There are deal breakers for me that I think would stop me from buying a M3.. The center screen not being flush with the dash being one. On the MX it's the FWDs. I hope Model Y doesn't have FWDs because I could see that being a good next choice for my household.

That being said, I wouldn't want to do another MS until they have upgraded the compute in the center console... Of course all future Tesla purchases for me and my wife will depend greatly on how well my MS holds up over time and how well Tesla treats us for out of warranty repair items if they come up. I've had a the clunk in the half shafts coming back again after being repaired under warranty around 35k miles (reemerged around 55k miles and I now have 64k).. If Tesla wants $3500 to fix that I'm going to think long and hard about ever buying another car from them again.

 

[oktane]

Model 3 is 90% of the Model S at 30% of the price. Unless you need the interior space, Model 3 is the clear choice.