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NextEV reveal 1,341 hp all-electric hypercar

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by voyager, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. voyager

    voyager Member

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    Chinese electric car start up NextEV has revealed its long awaited all-electric hypercar. Dubbed the EP9, it’s set to be launched under a new global sub brand called NIO. It’s an eye-catching car designed to build hype for the NIO brand, which will launch its first mass market electric car in China at some point in 2017.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    NextEV reveal 1,341bhp NIO EP9 all-electric hypercar
     
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  2. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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  3. Hank42

    Hank42 Member

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  4. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    This should make the American, EU, Japanese, and Korean automakers really nervous.
     
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  5. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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  6. NOLA_Mike

    NOLA_Mike Grouchy

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    It encourages wearing a seat belt. You DO NOT want to slide forward in that seat...

    :)
     
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  7. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Why, you think this is going to be a high volume production vehicle?
     
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  8. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    #8 McRat, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
    With EV pricing being the greatest obstacle to adoption (an EV that is cheaper than ICE cars, but performs the same tasks), and the Chinese government's desire to lead the world in the tech market, the next Toyota in the world could be a Chinese company in 5 years.

    Compelling cars have a market, but the real money is in boring cars, trucks, and SUV's with solid technology and low pricing.
    There WILL be a Camry clone that is EV at the same price point in the future. Will it be from China, who is looking towards territorial expansion, or the capitalist countries who have no current intention to become aggressively imperialist.

    Although the best hope for the long term future might in fact be the Chinese taking over the world.

    When you think about it, China should probably put in an offer to buy California, minus the 1/2 that is Federally owned. We want the government to tell us how many kids, cars, and political beliefs to hold, so it would be an easy transition after they put the intellectuals in prison.
     
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  9. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Fat chance, when they buckle you, they ask "Can you still breathe?" if you answer yes, they tighten it some more. :D
     
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  10. voyager

    voyager Member

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    #10 voyager, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
    I guess that this one is meant as a halo showpiece.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  11. cwave1

    cwave1 Member

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  12. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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  13. swaltner

    swaltner Member

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  14. Cloxxki

    Cloxxki Member

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    #14 Cloxxki, Nov 22, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
    Oops, long ramble.

    This NextEV EP9 not an effort to be sniffed at.
    For ANY car, even non-road legal, a 7:05 around the Nordschleife is a serious matter. To even manage that in an LMP1 car would take a pretty committed driver.
    The specs are promising. 1735 kg, 635kg of which a battery pack that lasts 265 miles. Considering the downforce focused aero design, I'd say that's around 90kWh if not more. So roughtly the same pack weight AND capacity as a Tesla 100 from 18650's. But, the peak output is nearly double.
    Let's be clear, this car is lighter than a Rimac, and boasts yet unseen levels of dowforce. It makes the already legendary high DF Koenigsegg One:1 seem like the EV-range-anxiety specific body in comparison.

    They're throwing around figures such as even 3 G's of (I suspect) cornering. One:1 claims 2.0 G's.
    The acceleration figures are impressive also, but it seems the motors are either a bit rpm-specific, or as all other EV's, it suffers diminished power from (over)heating. With such massive aero and (for a supercar) decent total weight, 7:05 is somewhat disappointing. I doubt it has 1MW on tap in the last quarter of the lap. That would be beyond amazing. Of course we can't expect this startup to match the Porsche 918 ICE road legal record holder (6:58) for cornering speed, although the claimed 2.5-3's implies it should do so at least in fast corners.

    What could Tesla do with their rumored new Roadster? Would the 2170 cells coming up suffice to take BEV supercars to the next levvel, beyond this EP9 and the Rimac?
    Tesla seems to have established itself as an impossible to beat player when it comes to traction control off the line. Or, we don't fully understand yet how a heavier car generates traction to overcome its own added mass.

    A ~150kg lighter pack from 2170's would still match the EP9 for range in a similar body. But such a ~90kWh pack of course "only" netts half the EP9's megawatt. Would Tesla need to also go 4-motor to get the best heat management? With smaller battery power, similarly big motors to the EP9 would not heat up too quickly. Or, lighter motors would suffice but heat up easily.
    Or, would Tesla put in an additional high-(dis)charge pack of around 50-100kg, to produce short bursts closer to 1MW total, and enjoy really high regen under braking to achieve more for track use?

    EP9 has a gearbox per wheel, to not only be quick off the line, but also bring top speeds over 200mph. With Tesla's currrent motors, you fell in a 20% lighter sports car, the same drivetrain could be easily geared 25-30% higher. It would still get off the line like today's P100DL, but have the revs to go way beyond the currrent 155mph/250kph. Without a gear box. But, heat WILL be an issue.

    Appreciate that EP9 did a whole lap of the ring in a very impressive ICE hypercar worthy time. This is not done if after 2 minutes there is a dotted like at 100kW. A modern Tesla drivetrain in a lighter body simply doesn't manage 7:05. It would do a quick 0-60 and 1/4, but that's about it. Rimac has taken cooling very seriously, and worked years on developing that when they already had a working car. EP9 get's around the Nurburgring with what must have been never less than 300kW of "juice flow". Telemetry will likely stay a secret.

    Does anyone know of cell technology on the market today that approaches Tesla's Wh/kg pack figures while offering more W/kg peak output? The 2170 cells are to optimize Wh/L (volume) probably, not get high peak power. To compare Koenigsegg Regera 4.7kWh pack puts out the same 500kW peak power as a Tesla P90DL. 20x greater power to capacity ratio. Although vastly lower Wh/kg, so you don't want a 100kWh pack from such cells, it would weigh as much as the projected Roadster as a whole. In an EP9 lap time killing Roadster, you'd not want more than 400-500kg in batteries, surely. It will be difficult enough to get the rest of the car done under 1500kg, let alone the 1000kg you want. Tesla has a reputation to uphold in crash safety, and that's a "heavy" design burden.

    For a quick lap around the Nordschleife yardstick, 90kWh is by no means necessary but obviously welcome. If you manage to achieve 500kW avarage around the lap, after regen, in 7 minutes you spend 35kWh. I suspect such a 7-minute lap time can be achieved with a good chassis and aero with even less. Say a 500kW peak output that thanks to great motors and cooling is available most of the time, with good regen capability. Now of the total weight can be kept under 1500kg, the current breed of hypercars will be well under pressure.

    A lot will depend on whether Tesla want a $200k Roadster or a $1M standard redefiner such as the Bugatti Veyron was, and the Koenigsegg One:1 is. At $200k, no choice, it has to get cheap batteries and even motors borrowed from the sedan and SUV. A fancy chassis would need to reduce weight A LOT, and additional cooling measure would keep the power more available through a timed run.
    The key metric seems to be the continuous (and interval) power output from both the battery and the motors. Peak power is a party trick that doesn't even get you to 1/4 mile. P100DL is down to 450kW from 567kW or so before a 1/4 mile is over (10 seconds). In a longer track attack, will the dotted line allow for even 200kW? In a new generation Roadster this will not be "cool"(no pun intended) IMO. When you say there is a racey 500kW, it's should be down to a journeyman 200kW after a single short GP lap.
     
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  15. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    One thing to consider, when going for a one off track record you can pull higher C rates from a pack than you would if you were trying to get 200k miles and 15 years of life from it.
     
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  16. Cloxxki

    Cloxxki Member

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    You're right there. I wonder to which extent, though. Could you manage to drive the car a year with a few such events here and there, do like 3000 miles on the track, before it gives in? And would this be at 10% higher output than the trusty Tesla, or 30%, even 50%?
    Heating also slows down the car even if it's allowed to happen. Better cooling will probably be worth the effort, to get more out of battery and motors. But it's complex, easily made heavy, and thus costly to keep in check.
    Some expensive high discharge cells are said to be less prone to heating. Lower internal resistance? They tend to offer less range for a given pack weight though, so one might as well (if 500kW suffices) use Tesla cells, space them out some, and go crazy on the cooling power, to the point that it would make the car kind of loud. Dedicating 30kW to a serious cooling fan array might have quite an effect on a 500kW (470kW) pack that's spaced a bit wider to allow for serious cooling?
     
  17. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Warmer cells actually perform better, allowing higher output.
     
  18. Cloxxki

    Cloxxki Member

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    Without limit? Why would the cars have the fan come on while supercharging, or during Autobahn cruising?
     
  19. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Of course there is a limit, especially if you want to preserve cycle life. Not much of concern if you're attempting a single record run, then you can run them just short of melting down.
     
  20. Cloxxki

    Cloxxki Member

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    I wanted to add that there is a gimmicky side to this car. The passenger side LCD panel is to monitor, including heartrate, the response to the ride of the passenger. I like that the car has camera's all around to log track stuff and even on the go vlogging I suppose, but passenger response, as a key feature to the cockpit, really?
     

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