TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

NHTSA Tire issue reported on Tesla 21 Inch tires

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by joesp85+, Oct 24, 2013.

  1. joesp85+

    joesp85+ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    It appears that no one else besides Tesla owners know about the tire issues that some are experiencing. The first complaint was filed to NHTSA about the early tire wear on some Model S cars. If people remember, this was the same issue found in the Acura NSX when it was first released. Acura after being harrassed by the owners and after a NHTSA probe, had to recall all the 1st year cars and reconfigure the rear suspension arm. Same issue happened with the Mercedes S560SEL.

    If there are any other owners that are having early tire wear, I would recommend going on NHTSA website, so that they are aware of this issue. Maybe then Tesla will take this seriously and not tell owners that is would seem normal to replace tires every 5-7K as some owners like myself have been told.
     
  2. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,039
    We already had a long thread about the use of the NHTSA safety complaints. Even people arguing for it say it should be used for legitimate safety issues. The NSX was looked into after a couple of unexpected blowouts from the tire wear, but so far there hasn't been any for the Tesla (probably because Tesla service usually checks well before it can happen), so I'm not sure the safety complaint is the right route to go.
    http://www.rubbernews.com/article/19940321/ISSUE/303219981/nsx-tire-complaints-lead-to-investigation

    For people who are wondering what the OP is talking about, it's this safety complaint:
    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchResults.action?searchType=CMPL&prodType=V&targetCategory=C&activeTab=0&searchCriteria.make=TESLA&searchCriteria.model=MODEL%20S&searchCriteria.model_yr=2013&searchCriteria.prod_ids=1839811
     
  3. carrerascott

    carrerascott FUEL FTR

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Messages:
    893
    Location:
    Charlottesville, Virginia
    My car just went back to service today, again showing heavy wear on the inside rears. My first set wore down to the metal in 5500 miles. These only have 4500 and the insides are much more worn that the outer edges. Will be curious what Tesla comes up with to fix this...
     
  4. texex91

    texex91 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,590
    Location:
    hell
    Have they checked the toe and alignment?? Something seems off (of course depending on your driving habits). Should at least get 7500 miles.
     
  5. carrerascott

    carrerascott FUEL FTR

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Messages:
    893
    Location:
    Charlottesville, Virginia
    Yes they supposedly addressed that the first time. We have normal driving, some curvy roads but overall the mileage is "normal" "commuting" (100 mi/day). I've owned many sports cars in the past (last was Porsche 996 Turbo) and certainly understand the rears wear out in 10k -- but less than that is a bit ridiculous, and uneven wear tells me something is wrong.

    We'll see what they come up with...


     
  6. Kraken

    Kraken Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    799
    Location:
    Voltageville, CA
  7. tomas

    tomas Traded in 9 rep bars for M3, used to be somebody!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,100
    Location:
    Chicago/Montecito
    Yikes, sounds like either alignment, or you drive like a wild man, Scott! I now have 10,300 on my 21s and they look good for another 10. Now, I did have two pothole induced sidewall blowouts at around 3k miles so I guess 2 tires only really have 7k on them, but nonetheless... sounds like alignment to me.
     
  8. joesp85+

    joesp85+ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    What car buyer of a 4 door sedan is okay changing tires at 5K miles. In my M5, they lasted 15K miles with the same michelins.
    Don't you think Tesla should address this issue??? It does seem like a safety concern to me. Who would ever think to replace tires that early??
    Do they expect me to replace tires 2-3 times a year?? That would negate any advantage of not putting in gas....
     
  9. JohnnyMac

    JohnnyMac Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    59
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA
    #9 JohnnyMac, Oct 24, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
    Sorry to say, but 21s wearing to the cords by 5k miles on the extreme inside edge where many owners do not notice/cannot see IS an NHTSA safety issue. It is well documented and far too common and it needs uniform resolution. Love my P85 but my 21s are on a similar path, Tesla alignment and all at 2k mikes. Those who have the issue will agree. Those who don't, cant understand and blame driving style. The massively uneven wear between inside and outside edge say it all.
     
  10. 100thMonkey

    100thMonkey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    914
    Location:
    Seattle area
    yep, in more ways than just economy... it supposedly takes a barrel of oil to make a single tire. the numbers don't look good, 42 gallons of oil times 4, that's 168 gallons every time you have to replace a set. for 2-3 times a year, that's between 336 and 504 gallons of oil a year. so much for zero emission. I think I just talked myself into 19" cyclones!
     
  11. joesp85+

    joesp85+ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    People need to complain to NHTSA on their website and if so, they will start an investigation into it. It's foolish for us just to complain on the forums here and get stonewalled by Tesla. I love my P85+, but I can't just put it ff that it is a new design flaw and to live with it. If many more of us complain, maybe they will finally take us seriously.
     
  12. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,793
    Location:
    Skaneateles, NY
    #12 yobigd20, Oct 25, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2013
    The biggest problem here is not one of a "design flaw" , but rather "education of buyers". Sure, there is a toe out/alignment issue that they need to address. But thats only going to extend the life of the tires from 5k to 10k miles. This are low profile high performance summer-only tires with 4600lbs of pressure bearing down on them, in addition to the increased friction caused by regen braking on the rear 2 tires. These 21" 'racing' tires only have 10k of " ideal life" to them anyway. Most buyers , while I don't want to call them "dumb", but rather "not smart" enough to realize this, even though the Tesla Motor's website clearly states this in several places as well as in the agreement when buying the car too. Everyone just seems to be glossing over this fact. I think everyone is like "yea yea wow THEY LOOK SOOOO COOL!!!!!" and are blinded it's aesthetic beauty. Perhaps they should make a popup modal with huge text and voice over speakers that blare out "YOU ARE BUYING RACING TIRES THAT HAVE 10K MAX IDEAL TREAD LIFE. EXPECT TO REPLACE YOUR TIRES EVERY 10K MILES. IF YOU WANT TIRES TO LAST 40K+ MILES, CLICK HERE TO SWITCH TO THE 19s". Maybe that will be finally get it through to everyone's head. fyi I have 27k miles on my 19" OEM goodyear's and I have more than 50% tread life left. I won't need to replace mine for the first time until 50-60k+ miles.
     
  13. texex91

    texex91 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,590
    Location:
    hell
    #13 texex91, Oct 25, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2013
    Agree with knowing they are racing tires, and have zero problem with replacing every 10K miles. Issue is most are only getting half of that...that is my concern.

    However, I think filing with NHTSA is not needed right now, if Tesla would allow P+ owners to bring their cars in for toe and alignment check.
     
  14. Beavis

    Beavis Signature 991

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    686
    Location:
    Colorful Colorado
    As you said, they do warn buyers that the 21s don't live very long. That is a given. The complaint seems to be uneven wear which shortens the already brief life of the tire. If a car has the alignment slightly off with soft tires like these, you will get some bad wear patterns pretty quickly. It seems to me that some of the cars aren't properly aligned off the factory floor and some service centers aren't great at alignments.
    When I first got my car, the alignment was slightly off but I called the SC right away. Since the SC was new, they didn't have the right equipment to do an alignment so they sent me to a Porsche dealer (Tesla paid for it under warranty) who nailed it. I have 11,000 miles on my 21s and they still look good but they are starting to hum a little. I'm going to keep an eye on them and rotate them again at 12,000 if they still have decent tread. No big deal because I didn't expect them to last long anyway.
     
  15. fiksegts

    fiksegts Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,048
    Location:
    Miami
    just rotating my tires on my P85 at 8k miles, rears were looking fine....
     

    Attached Files:

  16. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,266
    I've run Z rated tires my entire life, that's completely erroneous. Across multiple cars and tire sizes using Z rated tires, I get 15k if I treat them harsh, 20k if I'm doing typical driving.

    The manufacturer warranty on the Contintental Extreme Contacts is (from Contintental's warranty page):
    ExtremeContact DWS 50,000 miles

    Now, you won't get 50k out of the tires unless perhaps it's super babied driving and the warranty's other bits basically mean if you invoke the warranty the pro-rated bit means you won't see much in warranty, but saying these tires only have 10k in them is outright false.

    Where? Point it out precisely where Tesla spells this out.
     
  17. carrerascott

    carrerascott FUEL FTR

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Messages:
    893
    Location:
    Charlottesville, Virginia
    I'd be fine with 10-12k. I'm getting less than 5k.
     
  18. teslasguy

    teslasguy MSP P#1117

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    Messages:
    672
    Location:
    West Chester, Pa
    Read the Edmunds report on this very issue. They got their tires replaced for free by Tesla. The inside rear wear is an alignment issue (toe).
     
  19. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2013
    Messages:
    3,132
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    #19 Gizmotoy, Oct 25, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2013
    The speed rating has absolutely nothing to do with tread life. All it means when it says a tire is Z-rated is that the tire won't self-destruct at speeds in excess of 149MPH (there are additional speed ratings for how far over 149 you can go, ZW/ZY/etc). You can get hard Z-rated touring all seasons, Z-rated winter tires, and soft Z-rated extreme performance summers, and they will all have massively different tread life.

    What you should actually be watching is the treadwear rating, though unfortunately, even that is of limited use because it varies between manufacturers disallowing direct comparisons.

    That said, there are M3s and CTS-Vs running these tires and getting far more than 10k miles. Indeed, I see some as long as 20k-25k on Tire Rack reviews for the CTS-V, which is of somewhat similar weight to the Model S (4200 lbs). The limited life on the Model S is a function of suspension geometry and alignment issues (toe issues/stock negative camber).
     
  20. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,266
    True enough, though typically Z rated tires are also the stick, low tread life, performance tires. That was certainly the case for me.
     

Share This Page