NHTSA Tire issue reported on Tesla 21 Inch tires

[joesp85+]

It appears that no one else besides Tesla owners know about the tire issues that some are experiencing. The first complaint was filed to NHTSA about the early tire wear on some Model S cars. If people remember, this was the same issue found in the Acura NSX when it was first released. Acura after being harrassed by the owners and after a NHTSA probe, had to recall all the 1st year cars and reconfigure the rear suspension arm. Same issue happened with the Mercedes S560SEL.

If there are any other owners that are having early tire wear, I would recommend going on NHTSA website, so that they are aware of this issue. Maybe then Tesla will take this seriously and not tell owners that is would seem normal to replace tires every 5-7K as some owners like myself have been told.

 

[stopcrazypp]

We already had a long thread about the use of the NHTSA safety complaints. Even people arguing for it say it should be used for legitimate safety issues. The NSX was looked into after a couple of unexpected blowouts from the tire wear, but so far there hasn't been any for the Tesla (probably because Tesla service usually checks well before it can happen), so I'm not sure the safety complaint is the right route to go.
http://www.rubbernews.com/article/19940321/ISSUE/303219981/nsx-tire-complaints-lead-to-investigation

For people who are wondering what the OP is talking about, it's this safety complaint:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners...model_yr=2013&searchCriteria.prod_ids=1839811

 

[carrerascott]

My car just went back to service today, again showing heavy wear on the inside rears. My first set wore down to the metal in 5500 miles. These only have 4500 and the insides are much more worn that the outer edges. Will be curious what Tesla comes up with to fix this...

 

[texex91]

My car just went back to service today, again showing heavy wear on the inside rears. My first set wore down to the metal in 5500 miles. These only have 4500 and the insides are much more worn that the outer edges. Will be curious what Tesla comes up with to fix this...

Have they checked the toe and alignment?? Something seems off (of course depending on your driving habits). Should at least get 7500 miles.

 

[carrerascott]

Yes they supposedly addressed that the first time. We have normal driving, some curvy roads but overall the mileage is "normal" "commuting" (100 mi/day). I've owned many sports cars in the past (last was Porsche 996 Turbo) and certainly understand the rears wear out in 10k -- but less than that is a bit ridiculous, and uneven wear tells me something is wrong.

We'll see what they come up with...

Have they checked the toe and alignment?? Something seems off (of course depending on your driving habits). Should at least get 7500 miles.

 

[Kraken]

Im having mine fixed right now. The alignment was off after 5000 and one blew on a pothole. Also see thus: Tire Woes, Part 2 - 2013 Tesla Model S Long-Term Road Test

 

[tomas]

Yes they supposedly addressed that the first time. We have normal driving, some curvy roads but overall the mileage is "normal" "commuting" (100 mi/day). I've owned many sports cars in the past (last was Porsche 996 Turbo) and certainly understand the rears wear out in 10k -- but less than that is a bit ridiculous, and uneven wear tells me something is wrong.

We'll see what they come up with...

Yikes, sounds like either alignment, or you drive like a wild man, Scott! I now have 10,300 on my 21s and they look good for another 10. Now, I did have two pothole induced sidewall blowouts at around 3k miles so I guess 2 tires only really have 7k on them, but nonetheless... sounds like alignment to me.

 

[joesp85+]

What car buyer of a 4 door sedan is okay changing tires at 5K miles. In my M5, they lasted 15K miles with the same michelins.
Don't you think Tesla should address this issue??? It does seem like a safety concern to me. Who would ever think to replace tires that early??
Do they expect me to replace tires 2-3 times a year?? That would negate any advantage of not putting in gas....

 

[JohnnyMac]

Sorry to say, but 21s wearing to the cords by 5k miles on the extreme inside edge where many owners do not notice/cannot see IS an NHTSA safety issue. It is well documented and far too common and it needs uniform resolution. Love my P85 but my 21s are on a similar path, Tesla alignment and all at 2k mikes. Those who have the issue will agree. Those who don't, cant understand and blame driving style. The massively uneven wear between inside and outside edge say it all.

 

[100thMonkey]

...That would negate any advantage of not putting in gas....

yep, in more ways than just economy... it supposedly takes a barrel of oil to make a single tire. the numbers don't look good, 42 gallons of oil times 4, that's 168 gallons every time you have to replace a set. for 2-3 times a year, that's between 336 and 504 gallons of oil a year. so much for zero emission. I think I just talked myself into 19" cyclones!

 

[joesp85+]

People need to complain to NHTSA on their website and if so, they will start an investigation into it. It's foolish for us just to complain on the forums here and get stonewalled by Tesla. I love my P85+, but I can't just put it ff that it is a new design flaw and to live with it. If many more of us complain, maybe they will finally take us seriously.

 

[yobigd20]

People need to complain to NHTSA on their website and if so, they will start an investigation into it. It's foolish for us just to complain on the forums here and get stonewalled by Tesla. I love my P85+, but I can't just put it ff that it is a new design flaw and to live with it. If many more of us complain, maybe they will finally take us seriously.

The biggest problem here is not one of a "design flaw" , but rather "education of buyers". Sure, there is a toe out/alignment issue that they need to address. But thats only going to extend the life of the tires from 5k to 10k miles. This are low profile high performance summer-only tires with 4600lbs of pressure bearing down on them, in addition to the increased friction caused by regen braking on the rear 2 tires. These 21" 'racing' tires only have 10k of " ideal life" to them anyway. Most buyers , while I don't want to call them "dumb", but rather "not smart" enough to realize this, even though the Tesla Motor's website clearly states this in several places as well as in the agreement when buying the car too. Everyone just seems to be glossing over this fact. I think everyone is like "yea yea wow THEY LOOK SOOOO COOL!!!!!" and are blinded it's aesthetic beauty. Perhaps they should make a popup modal with huge text and voice over speakers that blare out "YOU ARE BUYING RACING TIRES THAT HAVE 10K MAX IDEAL TREAD LIFE. EXPECT TO REPLACE YOUR TIRES EVERY 10K MILES. IF YOU WANT TIRES TO LAST 40K+ MILES, CLICK HERE TO SWITCH TO THE 19s". Maybe that will be finally get it through to everyone's head. fyi I have 27k miles on my 19" OEM goodyear's and I have more than 50% tread life left. I won't need to replace mine for the first time until 50-60k+ miles.

 

[texex91]

The biggest problem here is not one of a "design flaw" , but rather "education of buyers". Sure, there is a toe out/alignment issue that they need to address. But thats only going to extend the life of the tires from 5k to 10k miles. This are low profile high performance summer-only tires with 4600lbs of pressure bearing down on them, in addition to the increased friction caused by regen braking on the rear 2 tires. These 21" 'racing' tires only have 10k of " ideal life" to them anyway. Most buyers , while I don't want to call them "dumb", but rather "not smart" enough to realize this, even though the Tesla Motor's website clearly states this in several places as well as in the agreement when buying the car too. Everyone just seems to be glossing over this fact. I think everyone is like "yea yea wow THEY LOOK SOOOO COOL!!!!!" and are blinded it's aesthetic beauty. Perhaps they should make a popup modal with huge text and voice over speakers that blare out "YOU ARE BUYING RACING TIRES THAT HAVE 10K MAX IDEAL TREAD LIFE. EXPECT TO REPLACE YOUR TIRES EVERY 10K MILES. IF YOU WANT TIRES TO LAST 40K+ MILES, CLICK HERE TO SWITCH TO THE 19s". Maybe that will be finally get it through to everyone's head. fyi I have 27k miles on my 19" OEM goodyear's and I have more than 50% tread life left. I won't need to replace mine for the first time until 50-60k+ miles.

Agree with knowing they are racing tires, and have zero problem with replacing every 10K miles. Issue is most are only getting half of that...that is my concern.

However, I think filing with NHTSA is not needed right now, if Tesla would allow P+ owners to bring their cars in for toe and alignment check.

 

[Beavis]

As you said, they do warn buyers that the 21s don't live very long. That is a given. The complaint seems to be uneven wear which shortens the already brief life of the tire. If a car has the alignment slightly off with soft tires like these, you will get some bad wear patterns pretty quickly. It seems to me that some of the cars aren't properly aligned off the factory floor and some service centers aren't great at alignments.
When I first got my car, the alignment was slightly off but I called the SC right away. Since the SC was new, they didn't have the right equipment to do an alignment so they sent me to a Porsche dealer (Tesla paid for it under warranty) who nailed it. I have 11,000 miles on my 21s and they still look good but they are starting to hum a little. I'm going to keep an eye on them and rotate them again at 12,000 if they still have decent tread. No big deal because I didn't expect them to last long anyway.

 

[fiksegts]

just rotating my tires on my P85 at 8k miles, rears were looking fine....

 

[ckessel]

These 21" 'racing' tires only have 10k of " ideal life" to them anyway.

I've run Z rated tires my entire life, that's completely erroneous. Across multiple cars and tire sizes using Z rated tires, I get 15k if I treat them harsh, 20k if I'm doing typical driving.

The manufacturer warranty on the Contintental Extreme Contacts is (from Contintental's warranty page):
ExtremeContact DWS 50,000 miles

Now, you won't get 50k out of the tires unless perhaps it's super babied driving and the warranty's other bits basically mean if you invoke the warranty the pro-rated bit means you won't see much in warranty, but saying these tires only have 10k in them is outright false.

These 21" 'racing' tires only have 10k of " ideal life" to them anyway. Most buyers , while I don't want to call them "dumb", but rather "not smart" enough to realize this, even though the Tesla Motor's website clearly states this in several places as well as in the agreement when buying the car too

Where? Point it out precisely where Tesla spells this out.

 

[carrerascott]

I'd be fine with 10-12k. I'm getting less than 5k.

 

[teslasguy]

Yes they supposedly addressed that the first time. We have normal driving, some curvy roads but overall the mileage is "normal" "commuting" (100 mi/day). I've owned many sports cars in the past (last was Porsche 996 Turbo) and certainly understand the rears wear out in 10k -- but less than that is a bit ridiculous, and uneven wear tells me something is wrong.

We'll see what they come up with...

Read the Edmunds report on this very issue. They got their tires replaced for free by Tesla. The inside rear wear is an alignment issue (toe).

 

[Gizmotoy]

I've run Z rated tires my entire life, that's completely erroneous. Across multiple cars and tire sizes using Z rated tires, I get 15k if I treat them harsh, 20k if I'm doing typical driving.

The speed rating has absolutely nothing to do with tread life. All it means when it says a tire is Z-rated is that the tire won't self-destruct at speeds in excess of 149MPH (there are additional speed ratings for how far over 149 you can go, ZW/ZY/etc). You can get hard Z-rated touring all seasons, Z-rated winter tires, and soft Z-rated extreme performance summers, and they will all have massively different tread life.

What you should actually be watching is the treadwear rating, though unfortunately, even that is of limited use because it varies between manufacturers disallowing direct comparisons.

That said, there are M3s and CTS-Vs running these tires and getting far more than 10k miles. Indeed, I see some as long as 20k-25k on Tire Rack reviews for the CTS-V, which is of somewhat similar weight to the Model S (4200 lbs). The limited life on the Model S is a function of suspension geometry and alignment issues (toe issues/stock negative camber).

 

[ckessel]

The speed rating has absolutely nothing to do with tread life. All it means when it says a tire is Z-rated is that the tire won't self-destruct at speeds in excess of 149MPH (there are additional speed ratings for how far over 149 you can go, ZW/ZY/etc). You can get hard Z-rated touring all seasons, Z-rated winter tires, and soft Z-rated extreme performance summers, and they will all have massively different tread life.

True enough, though typically Z rated tires are also the stick, low tread life, performance tires. That was certainly the case for me.