TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Niche Luxury Car Maker According to Barclays

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by gnuarm, May 30, 2019.

  1. Brovane

    Brovane Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2016
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    • Like x 2
  2. Singuy

    Singuy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2018
    Messages:
    740
    Location:
    US
    Yes, and they are on the cusp of doing this. 2017, Tesla profit was -2 billion. 2018, Tesla profit is -1 billion. 2019..they might break even depending on the rest of the year (and looks to be on track).

    That looks like a maturing company to me utilizing ONLY 1/3 of their products and only ONE product that is for the masses.

    Other money makers include Semi, Solar Roof, and 800lb gorilla that's the Model Y. So all this crying about "how dare they lose money!..What a *sugar* company" is a ridiculous premise when you see their YOY revenue growth is over 50% while operational cost stays roughly flat.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Love x 1
  3. Singuy

    Singuy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2018
    Messages:
    740
    Location:
    US
    No one thinks the thought that Tesla is out of the deep wood antagonize people. It antagonizes people when it's blown out of proportions. Even Elon recognizes that just because Tesla have succeeded in getting over the hardest make or break hump, it doesn't mean there are no humps in the future hence the capital raise and constant cost savings he is advocating in preparation for more humps ahead.

    We are in the camp who believes future humps will not be anywhere near as difficult as the first hump. It has been proven that Tesla CAN mass produce EVs(a statement in which only BYU can share while no other major Legacy manufacture are able to do). So the next step is to mass produce more than one model...mass produce batteries on a gigantic scale, and mass produce solar roofs on a massive scale.
     
  4. Singuy

    Singuy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2018
    Messages:
    740
    Location:
    US
    Sorry I mean BYD.
     
  5. Singuy

    Singuy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2018
    Messages:
    740
    Location:
    US
    Another company that can mass produce EVs.
     
  6. EVNow

    EVNow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    5,909
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    They have been talking about it for so long - they make Musk seem like a realist in terms of timeline.

    BTW, they all talk about "electrified" cars, which includes even mild hybrids.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. Brovane

    Brovane Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2016
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    I clearly stated what would probably be the EPR range of the NIOES8

    The main competitor of NIO is Tesla not Nissan.

    Compared to Tesla, the NIO cars are getting significantly less range on higher capacity batteries. Stating they have 310 miles of range without referencing the test cycle, makes it seem like NIO is closer technologically than they actually are to their main competitor.
     
  8. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    5,894
    Location:
    Visalia, CA
    That's a good thing!

    However, to correct on the range:

    Nio ES8: An Electric SUV from NextEV | News | Car and Driver

    "Nio boasts that the ES8 can travel 310 miles, but that’s at a constant 37 mph."

    That's also a great speed for 2019 Audi A8 Level 3 Traffic Jam Pilot maxed at 37 MPH!

    But that speed is not practical in USA highways.

    Nio ES8 is priced at ¥456,000 ($66,076.13)

    Tesla Model 3 is priced at ¥328,000 yuan ($47,502.21)

    As mentioned above, there are billions of Chinese so there are not enough EV companies for a foreseeable.

    We need more!
     
  9. 30seconds

    30seconds Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,980
    Location:
    SF
    "So when GM rolls out their 20 models by 2023"

    Holy *sugar*, that's the funniest thing I've read on the internet in at least a month.

    Seriously, you should give up your day job and hit the comedy circuit.
     
  10. Singuy

    Singuy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2018
    Messages:
    740
    Location:
    US
    What is not cutting it are the attitude toward electric cars these legacy auto makers have. They are only talking about going full EV to satisfy shareholders, regulators, and prevent people from jumping into what is available today. In reality not one manufacture have any solid plans to do so. Where are the charging infrastructure? Where are they going to source their batteries? What are they doing about software? What are their plans for ICE part distributers?

    Tesla is the only company that is doing ev right with the fasted pace of innovation. The other manufactures are trying to half ass their way into the EV space because it's an expensive endeavor while already working on razor thin margins in their entire portfolio stack. This is why in 2019 there are no cars that can beat a Tesla from 2012. Just a lot of fake promises.
     
    • Like x 2
  11. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    5,894
    Location:
    Visalia, CA
    That's the problem. They have the money but they refuse to pour money into EV design/infrastructure to demonstrate that their EV can go coast to coast with a decent time.

    It's just like saying I can run a marathon any time I want to. I got all the calories and energy to do so.

    It's easy to brag so why not doing it!

    Money is one thing but they also need to have the will power to invest the money for EV.

    So far, their only will power is the bragging power!
     
  12. Singuy

    Singuy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2018
    Messages:
    740
    Location:
    US
    What do you mean no fakes? Look at the Hyundai ev, not sold pretty much everywhere except a few states. The bolt is pretty much a spark converted. I like how they took Ev seriously by converting their ugliest and least desirable car model.

    And what about electrify America? Who knows about it? Is it fast? Does the general public even know they exist? What are companies doing about software? Tesla is partnering with Netflix and most likely will start monitizing apps via movies and games..are ev companies doing this because not everyone wants to get coffee while charging.

    Like I said, Tesla is doing this correctly and other companies are lackluster and it shows.


    I mean about parts oem are the partnership and reliance other car companies have since they have little vertical integration. Will they lose bargining power once they convert to ev? Where are they going to outsource EV parts and battery packs?

    Tesla has the highest engagements ever known. Their software updates and a quirky CEO keep our cars interesting. Not a lot of people beside die hard fanatics engage with their cars as much as a Tesla owner which will keep us in this ecosystem. Why do I even have hundreds of posts on this forum? Why do you? All of this adds up to brand loyalty.
     
    • Like x 2
  13. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    5,894
    Location:
    Visalia, CA
    #33 Tam, May 31, 2019
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
    Did you see how Electrify America do it?

    This picture is from their website and I just couldn't believe it!

    upload_2019-5-31_21-58-9.png


    One charging spot has 2 identical charge points!

    There's no accident there! Here's another picture from CSP Daily News:

    [​IMG]

    They are just so rich! They just have so much money so each parking spot has 2 identical charging points!!!!

    The cables are too short to go to the other side, and if it could, the other side is a drive way, not a parking space.

    So what are they thinking? How to get 2 charging points to 2 cars in one single parking spot? You mean they mean like this below?

    [​IMG]

    Ahhhhh! They must think that's how it works in EV. Stack the cars up and you can use 2 charging points in 1 same parking space simultaneously!
     
  14. CalX

    CalX Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    United States
    #34 CalX, May 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
    For a niche car maker compared to the big iron, Tesla seems to be doing pretty well. With the 100s of competitors from new and legacy automakers, why aren't others in the lead with their dealerships and mass marketing experience?
    [​IMG]

    On top of this, they only just started opening up orders for Model 3s in large parts of the world and are quickly moving forward with getting production out of gigafactory 3 by the end of the year which will significantly increase production.
     
  15. EVMeister

    EVMeister Lover of Tesla, driver of I-PACE

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    788
    Location:
    England
    #35 EVMeister, Jun 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
    Was gnuarm2 as misguided as the first and third one? You're talking about meeting schedules and criticising Tesla for missing them. Yet seem oblivious to the fact the major auto manufacturers have failed repeatedly to bring a compelling alternative to the market. The same guys who have CEOs charged and facing jail for lying and cheating. Yet you're suggesting they will somehow leapfrog Tesla? You're not making any convincing arguments here and ignoring the past and present whilst painting your own tainted picture of the future.

    I don't think it helps that you seem to live in an area surrounded by backwards-looking or older folk. They're not the future vehicle drivers or owners who Tesla would need to appeal to. The brand really resonates with many younger folk in ways that the "old brands" don't. I don't doubt the others will eventually get some compelling Tesla alternatives on the road, but I do doubt that would be harmful to Tesla.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Funny x 1
  16. Brovane

    Brovane Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2016
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    Orange County, CA

    The NIOES8 with the NEDC range of 311 miles has a 84kwh battery pack. This equals about 218 miles of EPA Ranges, or about 2.6 mile/kwh for EPA range. The NIOES8

    Tesla Model X Long range has 325 of EPA range which equals about 3.25 mile/kwh for EPA range. The Model X is about 25% more efficient than the NIOES8.

    What were you doing with a Model X P100D that you only got 2.18 mile/kwh? Where you towing something?
     
  17. Singuy

    Singuy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2018
    Messages:
    740
    Location:
    US
    Tesla took over 51% of all ev sales. You want me to ask where Jaguar gets their ev equipment when they sell like 10/day? I can make Jaguar ev equipments out of my garage at that kind of volume.

    If people want an EV, they will cross shop and compare to the best. Tesla objectively makes the best. It's the only company with cars on the road hitting almost half a million miles. Only company with enough data to ease people's concern about battery degredation. So all this competition has a long ways to go before they can prove they are competent enough to make a quality ev. The leaf gas failed with their poor battery management and the rest has failed to show efficiency.

    So if I want an EV, Tesla is on the top of my list and the standard I should compare to. I don't understand what you mean by "legacy companies know how to sell steak". Where are they at? I am looking at 2020-2021 and sees nothing but a bunch of compromises.
     
    • Like x 1
  18. hcdavis3

    hcdavis3 HCD3

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Messages:
    945
    Location:
    02571
    Barclays is a niche bank.
     
    • Funny x 1
  19. Brovane

    Brovane Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2016
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    You said the following.

    " I can't rely on a model X P100D to get 218 miles on any real trip."

    Which indicates to me that you cannot depend on the X P100D to get at least 218 miles from a 100 Kwh battery. The language you used also indicates some type of personal experience with using the X P100D on a real trip.

    If you divide 218 miles by 100 kwh = 2.18 mile/kwh.

    What were you doing with a Model X P100D that you only got 2.18 mile/kwh? Where you towing something?
     
  20. ⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️

    ⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️ Concerned citizen

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,177
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Tesla is doubling sales year over year. That’s why they are struggling with manufacturing, service and delivery logistics. If anything they are growing too fast. No other auto manufacturers are dealing with this kind of growth. It’s not fair to compare. Tesla is kicking ass.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC