TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Nissan Drops the EV Bomb

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by vfx, Mar 7, 2008.

  1. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    #1 vfx, Mar 7, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2008
  2. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,143
  3. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    "BUT the car in the picture is the previous Nissan EV concept, the Pivo 2"

    It's just a picture. AG always has a picture even if it has little to do with the copy.

    At least this time Autoblog Green said, "...we can be sure neither will look anything like the only electric car the two companies brought to Geneva: the Nissan Pivo2 concept (pictured)."
     
  4. DDB

    DDB Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    590
    I'd get excited, but where the hell are the specs? In 2 years? Yeah right...
     
  5. DDB

    DDB Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    590
    From ABG:

    "Nissan is planning to introduce an electric Cube in the U.S. and Japan in 2010 with fleets getting them for field testing for the first two years. After that, Nissan plans to expand availability to retail customers starting in California and, eventually, worldwide. The production edition is expected to have a range of 100 miles per charge." ABG


    Glad to see additional competitors to the BEVs.
     
  6. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
  7. domenick

    domenick Nerd

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    600
    Location:
    Florida
    I believe that picture accompanies the post because that was the electric car they brought to Geneva. I think the article mentions the car that's coming won't look like it.

    I'm rooting for Cube.
     
  8. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
  9. domenick

    domenick Nerd

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    600
    Location:
    Florida
    I think the Cube is coming to America. However, not sure if the electric version will make it.
     
  10. Brent

    Brent Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2007
    Messages:
    242
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I wonder if electric cars will be a way for Renault to re-establish its brand in the U.S. If I read correctly the New York Times article (mentioned in this Yahoo plug), Nissan will provide the batteries and Renault the bodies. The article hints that Nissan is thinking of an electric Maxima, but only in 2012.

    It's so wonderful to see a major jump into the electric space. I have to say I was a bit taken aback by the Roadster's "fit and finish" when I made my pilgrimage to the L.A. store last weekend. It is very much a sportscar, in all the senses that the word entails. Getting in and out requires a bit of pretzling, and the interior is spartan. It is noisy at rest, with various fans and pumps seeming to wake up at random. If the model I saw is any indication, it will be the noisiest car in one's garage -- the cooling fans are so loud as to interfere with normal conversation.

    I spoke to one buyer who had driven it at highway speeds, with hardtop on and windows up. He said it has a good amount of wind noise, more than he expected. Ironically, rolling the windows down seems to reduce the noise, but doesn't solve the problem of trying to keep warm in cool weather. He also mentioned that the environmental seals don't always seem to protect the interior from wet.

    Another person mentioned that the Roadster's warranty explicitly declares certain noises "normal," and disclaims responsibility for fixing them. I can't remember the exact language he cited, but it seemed to be unusual for a car manufacturer.

    These problems may all be "Version 1.0" issues, but I'm rather happy they will be explored on someone else's dime.

    Meanwhile, Nissan/Renault bring to the table a lot of automotive engineering expertise. I can't wait to see the result!
     
  11. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    We get to see it AUg 2nd :)

    Nissan's big bet: Mass market for EVs
    Hans Greimel
    Automotive News
    July 6, 2009 - 12:01 am ET

    YOKOHAMA, Japan -- Nissan Motor Co. CEO Carlos Ghosn is spending big money to make electric vehicles in high volumes -- and soon.

    On Aug. 2, Ghosn will unveil the first of three electric models in three vehicle segments that he plans to sell by 2013. The vehicles will be made in the United States, Japan and Europe.

    "We have a different strategy from other car manufacturers," Ghosn says. "We are the only ones investing for mass marketing, which is a risk, yes. But we think it is a bet in the right direction."

    That bet takes shape at a new lithium ion battery plant and at an electric-vehicle assembly line that Nissan will build at its Smyrna, Tenn., manufacturing complex. A $1.6 billion low-interest loan from the U.S. government will cover some of the costs. Analysts question the payoff.

    Nissan is not alone in going electric.

    -- In June, Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., maker of Subaru cars, began leasing electric cars in Japan. Mitsubishi Motors Corp. follows later this month.

    -- Toyota Motor Corp. will sell a plug-in Toyota Prius after 2010, taking on the Chevrolet Volt, which goes on sale in November 2010.

    -- BMW AG's Mini brand is testing a plug-in model in the United States.

    -- Tesla Motors Inc., owned 10 percent by Daimler AG, received a $465 million government loan to help bring its $57,400 Model S electric sedan to market.

    'Go for mass market'

    But rivals see initial volume in the hundreds or thousands. Ghosn wants hundreds of thousands. "If you go for EV, you should go for mass market," he says.

    Analysts warn of hype. Battery-powered cars may be the wave of the future, but costs are high; the recharging infrastructure isn't there, and hefty government subsidies are needed to make electric vehicles competitive.

    Nissan sees the technology as its best chance to eclipse Toyota and Honda Motor Co., which beat Nissan in introducing hybrid vehicles.

    "This is an opportunity to go into a whole new technology and own that space," says Andy Palmer, head of Nissan's electric-vehicle program. "Hybrid vehicles compete with the internal combustion engine. But EVs are a segment all their own."

    Nissan's consumer research shows that "there are definitely more than 100,000 in the United States who want" their next car to be an electric, Palmer says.

    Dealers excited

    "We can't get them soon enough," says Bill Newton, owner of Newton Nissan in Gallatin, Tenn. "Customers have already been asking about the cars since the news broke about Nissan's plans to build the car here in Tennessee."

    In California, Nissan of Elk Grove owner John Driebe thinks Nissan has identified a powerful new market segment. "A lot of Americans really want to stop using imported oil," he says. "We're excited about being able to market a car that will never use a drop of gasoline."

    Driebe's market near Sacramento is home to about 80,000 California state employees, many of whom are worried about the state's current budget crisis. Driebe sees commuting state employees as an ideal demographic group for the car.

    "By the time the electric car comes on line in 2012, the economy in California will be in a better place," says Driebe, the 2006 chairman of the Nissan Dealer Advisory Board. "Nissan is really committing to this idea, and I think they're going to be proven right."

    The Tennessee factories will have capacity for 150,000 vehicles and 200,000 battery packs a year. Production begins in late 2012.

    Nissan also will build electric vehicles at its Oppama assembly plant south of Tokyo, starting next fall with a capacity of 50,000. It also plans an electric-vehicle plant for Europe and is studying a plant for China.

    The first Japan-built car goes on sale in the United States and Japan next year to fleet customers such as corporations and local governments. It will be a four-door hatchback seating five people -- about the size of the Nissan Cube or Versa -- with a range of 100 miles per charge. Pricing isn't set.

    Oil vs. electrons

    Batteries are expensive. But Ghosn thinks rising oil prices will tilt the economics in favor of electrons. If crude oil rises above $80 a barrel, Nissan's electric vehicles will be cheaper to own and operate than gasoline-powered cars, he says.

    Crude trades for around $70 a barrel today. Analysts say that will rise as the global economy recovers.

    Ghosn aims for Nissan's electric cars, minus the battery, to cost as much as a standard car. Consumers will lease the battery at a cost that, including charging, will match what they would have paid for gasoline.

    Chris Richter, an analyst with CLSA Asia-Pacific Markets, says, "If they can make good on Ghosn's promise of a price comparable to a normal car, I think people will lap these up."

    Nissan hasn't said how much it is spending on its electric ambitions. The first of the three models costs as much to develop as three normal cars, a person familiar with the situation says. The total investment in battery and car assembly at Smyrna is expected to exceed Nissan's $1.6 billion loan from Washington, he says.

    The machinery needed to make 50,000 batteries a year costs more than $300 million, he said. Add in other costs, and the price tag just for battery plants in the United States, Japan and Europe -- which together will make more than 300,000 battery packs a year -- could total about $1.5 billion.

    Analysts ask whether Nissan's bid to take an early lead in electrics is worth the cost. Kurt Sanger, an auto analyst with Deutsche Securities Inc., says, "If the competition just sits back to see if it works and then uses its brand credibility to enter the market, there's no need to be first."

    But Ghosn sees his bet as positioning Nissan for the future, not just beating rivals to market with a single model.

    "It's a complete new lineup. Big cars, small cars, vans, light commercial vehicles, entry-level cars," Ghosn says. "It's a complete new way of looking at our industry."
     
  12. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,252
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Interesting choice of words... Given that Nissan is working with "Better Place".
     
  13. mpt

    mpt Electrics are back

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,629
    Location:
    Warren, New Jersey, United States
    I like Nissan; they've lent us an Altima Hybrid as a chase car for the Renew America Roadtrip event... cheers lads!
     
  14. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
  15. DDB

    DDB Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    590
  16. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    FUTURE PRODUCTS -- JAPAN BRANDS
    EV plays key role in Nissan's plan
    LINDSAY CHAPPELL
    AUTOMOTIVE NEWS
    AUGUST 31, 2009 - 12:01 AM ET

    As improbable as it may seem, a mass-market electric car has taken center stage at Nissan Motor Co.

    The Nissan brand remains committed to its traditional sedans, coupes and light trucks. But Nissan also is banking on large-volume sales of affordable electric vehicles, beginning with the 2011 Leaf.

    In a May interview, Brian Carolin, senior vice president for North American sales and marketing, said Nissan may create electric versions of its existing big sellers, such as the Altima.

    "By the middle of the next decade, or 2015, something on the order of 10 percent of our volume will be EV," Carolin said. "We will see some unique stand-alone EV vehicles. But in the second generation will come the decision to take an existing vehicle and move the powertrain from internal combustion to EV."
    (no link)
     
  17. grandepj

    grandepj New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Warwick, RI
    #18 grandepj, Sep 4, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
    Nissan LEAF Electric Car | Nissan USA Official Site


    nissan says it will be available in some states in 2010, with mass-production starting in 2012.

    100 mile range.
    90 mph top speed.
    accelerates "like a V6", but I couldn't find an actual number.

    "standard" charging should take 4 - 8 hours (pretty wide range really, so they probably have no clue), but they say they will have "quick-charge stations" to charge up to 80% in 26 minutes.

    They say they're aiming to price it similar to other typical family sedans, whatever that means.

    Also, I haven't heard of this yet:
    What would laminating do?
     
  18. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    EV1 turns into a Leaf. Or is it the other way around?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/earth2Tech/idUS11037805620090903

     
  19. johnr

    johnr Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    255
    #20 johnr, Sep 5, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
    Apparently their battery pack has twice the capacity of a standard li ion pack due to their laminating procedure. How they do it, or what exactly they do, I have no idea.

    BTW, there's more info on the LEAF on their Twitter: http://twitter.com/NissanEVs (and of course you can also ask them a question there). Although at this early stage in development, they don't have much finalized so you have to bear with some lack of information ... I asked about how they figure the 100 mile range, and what it would be under higher speed highway conditions, and got only this vague reply: "The 100-mile range is in standard driving conditions – some highway, some city."

    I'll summarize some little tidbits here ---

    General:
    Initially, it will be available in markets with a charging infrastructure. That includes CA, OR, WA, AZ, NC, & TN. The plan is to price it in the range of a typical family sedan - we’ll give a closer estimate soon. Nissan is hoping to have pre-ordering online in the future. The LEAF will launch in the United States in late 2010. U.S. production will begin in late 2012 at Nissan’s manufacturing facility in Smyrna, Tenn. We’re targeting a top speed of up to 90 mph. It will have LED headlights and taillights, since LEDs use far less power than conventional lighting. Front wheel drive. There is no hood since there is no engine to service in the traditional way - it will require service from qualified Nissan EV technicians.

    Features:
    Features will include A/C, nav, mp3 stereo, USB for iPods, power steering and windows, Bluetooth & more. The nav system will be able to show you charging locations along your route. The LEAF uses a cellular-type network, but there is no WiFi capability at the moment. Initially they will not offer a sunroof option, as sunroofs require a lot of power and make A/C work harder - they are a significant drain on range.

    Motor:
    The LEAF has an 80 kW electric motor with 280 Nm (equal to 107 HP and 206 lb-ft of Torque.

    Battery:
    LEAF uses a unique laminated Lithium-Ion battery with a capacity of 24kWh and a power of over 90kW. The battery is located in the floor of the vehicle under the driver's seat, so it has a minimal intrusion into the interior space. The battery will last around 5 years. Leasing vs. buying the battery isn’t ironed out yet - looking at which options best meet our customers’ needs. We’re looking into post-automotive applications and recycling options for used batteries.

    Charging:
    A full charge will take 4-8 hrs on a 220V outlet (like a dryer uses). You can program the car to charge whenever you like. Quick-charging will be available at public stations, and will charge the battery to 80% in about 26 minutes.

    You can sign up for their newsletter like I did and be the first to know of new events and test drives etc.: http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/opt-in/en/index.jsp
     

Share This Page