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Nissan e-POWER drivetrain announced

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by BluestarE3, Nov 2, 2016.

  1. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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  2. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    This car's drivetrain is a bit like the Honda Accord Hybrid, except the Accord Hybrid can drive the wheels directly through a fixed high gear on the highway. Honda calls it e-CVT, but it's really an ICE, a motor-generator coupled directly to the ICE, a motor-generator coupled directly to the wheels through a fixed gear reduction, and clutch between them. The battery is only 1.3kWh. I expect Nissan to use a similarly sized battery for the e-Power Note.
     
  3. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    Exactly.

    That new Nissan car is just a series hybrid. The article on Electrek is bizarre.
     
  4. 3Victoria

    3Victoria Active Member

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    An ICE with an electric power train.

    It still polutes.
     
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  5. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    Does this offer any advantages over conventional hybrids (e.g., Prius) other than a simpler drivetrain? Seems more like a lateral move than taking a step forward toward a true long-range EV.
     
  6. RiverBrick

    RiverBrick Active Member

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    This should be moved to the ICE forum. Not an electric car. Nissan calling this E-power is a bit like the ecodiesel tags some manufacturers slap on their cars.
     
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  7. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    #7 BluestarE3, Nov 2, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
    I understand the point you're trying to make about this not being a true EV, but posting about Nissan's e-POWER here is no different than allowing other threads in this subforum on the Prius Prime/Plug-in, Chevy Volt, Fisker Karma, Cadillac ELR, BMW i8, or BMW i3 REx, etc. All of these have an ICE in addition to electric motor and battery.
     
  8. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    What a ridiculous idea.
     
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  9. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    My guess is that the main advantages are simpler engineering and it avoids hybrid patents that the established players have already filed.

    Nissan is late to the hybrid game and this is the path of least risk that gets them a product to sell. The downside of series hybrids has been reduced efficiency at highway speeds vs having some mechanical path whether partial as in the power-split hybrids or complete as in the parallel hybrids. Nissan has just gone the route of having no mechanical path at all.
     
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  10. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    Except those cars can be recharged from a plug and operate a good part of the time in electric-only mode without using any energy sourced from gasoline. Some of those cars typically get the large majority of their energy from the grid. This new Nissan car gets all of its energy from gasoline. It has no reasonable possibility of running on renewable energy.
     
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  11. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    #11 BluestarE3, Nov 2, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
    Okay, I see your distinction there. Then, again, the Toyota Mirai (also discussed here) gets none of its electricity from a plug either, but I guess it gets a "pass" because it's a ZEV?
     
  12. Gen3

    Gen3 Member

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    I'm not convinced you won't be able to plug the car in. The press release just says it eliminates the need to plug in.
     
  13. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

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    It sounds ridiculous, but . . .
    I can almost see the point.
    For the average joe/joan user who doesn't want an EV or any of the charging and doesn't give two farts about the pollution they are causing, it could actually work.
    Downsides
    • Still an ICE
    • Still stinks from the tailpipe (it has a tailpipe)
    • Its not an EV
    Upsides
    • No transmission - just single EV style reduction gear
      This is a biggie for Nissan too, no complex gears/transmission etc etc
    • Instant torque - so it has great pickup, like a real EV but with poisonous fumes
    • Simple, well established refueling process
    • For Nissan it lets them throw the dealer a maintenance bone.
    In the end, if someone drives this the next logical step is to get rid of the thing that makes all the noise and smells.
    Nissan's transmission engineers just found out they have no future :)
     
  14. gregd

    gregd Active Member

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    This is where the real damage occurs. With a marketing plan focused on not plugging the car in, their customers probably won't "bother". That's the key - they are casting EVs as a nuisance to charge, when in fact they are easier to manage than an ICE in most cases. Even if the car can be externally charged, this is a step backwards.
     
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  15. gene

    gene Supporting Member

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    I often have people say to me, "I have an electric car too, I love my Prius". My response is: "If you can't run your car in a closed garage without dying, it isn't electric".
     
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  16. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    I can see this motivation if this had been introduced by a manufacturer who doesn't currently have a BEV in its line-up is using this to deflect any calls to offer a BEV. However, Nissan has had an EV for years with its Leaf and its corporate sister, Renault, has had the Zoe in Europe. Nissan is rumored to be working on a long-range follow-up to the Leaf. And it doesn't seem Carlos Ghosn is having having second thoughts about BEVs since he is scheduled to deliver a keynote speech at the upcoming CES in January to "discuss a major technological breakthrough in the realization of a zero-emission, zero-fatality world for everyone”.

    I agree with @Jeff N that this may be simply Nissan's new hybrid offering. In other words, its role may be to replace other full ICE cars in its line-up rather than as a sign that they are backtracking on their commitment to BEVs.
     
  17. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    A Nissan speaker was quoted as saying the battery is 5% the size of the LEAF battery. What exactly does that mean? There apparently is no specification available yet. But, 5% of 24-30 kWh would be 1.2-1.5 kWh which is a typical size of a hybrid battery pack. It would make no sense to externally charge such a small battery.
     
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  18. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    At least in theory, a Mirai could be loaded up with H2 based on renewable energy even if 95% or more of H2 today is actually made from stripping the carbon out of natural gas. I suppose one could also make synthetic gasoline from renewable energy but that is much harder to do and not even plausibly on the commercial radar right now.
     
  19. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. All those cars can be plugged in and can go some distance purely on the battery. They are EVs over short distances.

    This new Nissan "e-Power" is NOT an EV. It is entirely powered by fossil fuel. It cannot be powered by anything else. It is an ICE with a small battery. It really is bizarre.

    Strangest statement from the Nissan press release, quote: "Nissan is actively pursuing a zero-emission..."

    No with the e-Power they're not. It has a exhaust pipe!
     
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  20. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

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    Fully agree - this is not zero-emission in anyway.
    But it really does seem to be 100% driven by an electric traction motor. They suggest the ICE is only a generator.
    I'd assume it has to kick in almost continuously if the battery is that small.
    Having said that, it would still have the torque of a real EV and be just as snappy - just accompanied by the racket of the ICE, but with no transmission.
     

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