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Discussion in 'North America' started by zack, Mar 5, 2012.
Nissan Sets 1,500 - 2,000 DC Quick Charging Target For U.S. By 2014
It's a shame the Model S will not have Chademo support, this many level 3 chargers would be game changing for longer distance travel with an EV.
I blame the the people in charge for US standard for dragging their feet. Why they all didn't work together to make a world standard is beyond me.
I completely agree. For EV's to be widely adopted, they will need to be simple enough that anyone can operate them without any thought being needed. Right now, the multitude of charging options is confusing to even EVangelists, and is daunting to the average consumer. We currently have J1772, tesla roadster, Tesla Model S, Chademo, the old inductive paddle chargers, and probably several other standards that I am missing. It's confusing to the consumer, and is preventing infrastructure from being developed, because nobody wants to pay money to install a Betamax when the people who will actually use it are all watching VHS.
There is nobody in charge. All of the automakers are players. I think that most of them are actively obstructing it.
Each player is seeking their own advantage.
A company with no EV product in the near term seeks to delay any standard.
A company with an EREV product that doesn't need anything more than low power L1/L2 delays everything else or poisons the L1/L2 standard in favor of EREVs.
A company with an EV product available now tries to get the others to accept what they have already done.
The game is just starting. The market will find a standard not the governments.
Which standard is the best now? We don't know. It might be Tesla's. Who knows. Let the market decide.
Your right - the market will decide. The problem that could have been solved by governments working together is avoiding a whole bunch of people ending up with a Betamax!
I am happy gov didn't set the type of video equipment I'm using. I use to own a betamax, it's somewhere in my stockroom along with my vinyl disk player, my DVDs, iPod (I have a iPhone now) and more. My ICE car will soon join them.
Govs cannot set standards, the best tech (or marketing) will.
SAE is a pvt industry body - not a government controlled board.
Does not really make a difference. How would they be able to make a standard on a moving target?
They should have seen this years ago. SAE and their European counterparts could have gotten together 5-10 years ago and worked on something. I understand that isn't really realistic but it would have been nice. Companies always want their standard or flavor of a plug to win and will push that over something that is made to work with everything.
Nissan was smart to push their standard for DC charging quickly. By being there first, that gives them the upper hand. SAE could certainly have moved a little faster though. The markets will decide which standard wins but it's usually up to organizations like the SAE to come out with the standards that companies either back or go a different direction.
Actually, there is already a world DC charging standard. It is called the Combined Charging System (CCS). It incorporates both the SAE J1772-DC standard (for North America), and also the IEC 62196-3 standard (for Europe). The charging socket of the two standards have the same footprint, so it makes it easy for automakers to swap the two according to the market. It is backed by 7 major automakers around the world, and Tesla has indicated it is very likely the Model S will have a direct adapter for this standard (because the signaling and pins of the Model S standard is very similar). It will be ready to be deployed by mid-2012 (but that time frame was still too slow for Tesla which is why they built their own).
The standards bodies have been working on this for a couple of years already. And I feel given support from 7 large automakers, and Tesla with its adapter, it will likely be the dominant DC standard in the US. The question is still open in Europe, where CHAdeMO has made bigger headway in some countries. As for Japan, I think CHAdeMO will dominate (for obvious reasons).
Anyways, the CCS standards have been discussed at length in this thread already:
Thanks. I'll look into it. I'm still happy about all of the Chademo chargers in the US. As long as the Model S can use it with an adapter, it will still benefit us.
CHAdeMO is not Nissan's DC standard, it's a Japanese standard with a global automaker backing and over a decade's heritage.
Thanks. They are the main company pushing it at the moment it seems (much like Sony pushing blur-ray a few years ago) but you're right.
I think the standard on charging will be set by whomever is first to gain significant market share. Right now its a big circlejerk by companies that sell little to no electric cars and will only push them so far as to make their brand seem green. The problem is attenuated by the fact that it is not, at its core, a particularly difficult engineering feat - so you get "design by comittee".
Right now the de facto standard is a NEMA 14-50 due to its installed base at RV parks (etc) and the cheap availability of parts.
Which is actually fine by me. But there seems to be a strong desire to reinvent the wheel.
There's actually a useful rule in standards design which too few companies follow -- which is, figure out what existing, popular, in-use standard is closest to what you need, and copy it with minimal modifications.
Instead there's been a weird desire to make electric car chargers look like gas pumps. I really think that that has driven most of the weird standards, including both of Tesla's. And it doesn't make sense to me: I would think that *not* looking like gas pumps would be attractive.
Ironically, with Tesla and Nissan deciding to locate their charging outlets in different places on the car, *and* deciding to use different DC charging standards, this makes it particularly easy to place both a Nissan and a Tesla DC charging station at the same parking space. :wink:
This is a thread about CHAdeMO, so NEMA 14-50 doesn't come into it.
There is an official Nissan chademo charger that got installed in my parking garage in midtown Manhattan last week...I guess they're rolling them out. Too bad I can't use it!
Why would Tesla *not* make a CHAdeMO adapter? Is it some sort of ego thing? I would think that Tesla would want to make every possible adapter to make charging easier for all Model S owners...