Nissan Leaf Autopilot

[calisnow]

Umm OP why did you post this in the Model S section of the forums ?

I think it's relevant and should stay here. He asked which we'd prefer - it's a comparison.

 

[Qbenjamin]

Nope, won't even consider a Leaf, it's absolutely FUGLY.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Understand that a screwdriver is not a good replacement for a 17mm socket. There is a right tool for the job. You can use a crescent wrench, vise-grips, or pliers, but not a screwdriver. A 105 mi trip on an early Leaf is a screwdriver. On a 2017 Leaf, it's pliers (107mi EPA combined range).

No experience with a 2017 Leaf, but many EVs can hypermile well over their EPA rating.

My point in my reply to you and somebody else is that there's more to household miles than commuting, errands and long road trips.
There are a big chunk of leisure trips in the middle that can be the difference between the car sitting at weekends and not. Long range will address a good chunk of that, while long-range plus good charging can address another chunk.

 

[Hugh Mannity]

Nope, won't even consider a Leaf, it's absolutely FUGLY.

The re-style is supposedly going to have no bug eyes like the current one.

 

[croman]

Isn't cost prohibitive to put LIDAR on any mass market production cars? Doesn't 4 LIDAR on a car cost like 20k?

I read that their system currently costs 150k for the sensors computers and other parts. 1.5kw power draw. Not ready for mass market but still impressive.

 

[JasonA-EV]

There's one thing that Nissan and the Leafs have going for them and it's RELIABILITY! Our Leaf and all the members in our club that still have Leafs are ROCK SOLID! Zero issues.

The Rav's (Tesla drive trains) and our S's can be in the shops all they want, but the Leafs never go in (except for getting a new battery! LOL) If Nissan does right this time and cools the battery, goodbye M3.

Look at all the trouble AP 2.0 is having... I promise you I can charge faster once CHAdeMO 2.0 comes out then stuck at the crippled SpC units. My Rav is charging faster then my 70D is.

The Leaf was the gateway drug... but it's solid as hell. We'll go for another one if they cool the battery this time ;-)

 

[anonim1979]

More performance - less reliability.

Model 3 will be simpler and weaker (not as "weak" as a Leaf but still).
Drive-train should be a lot less problematic.

Just for the record : the video is not an April fool's joke. It's part of an event when Nissan showed their progress on autonomous driving during an event in London. Here is the same demo with the Guardian (it didn't go as well)

That truck lust is scary

I doubt they are selling Model S at an increased rate in this or next quarter

Well, funny thing happend.
Tesla delivers a record number of vehicles during the first quarter 2017: ~25,000

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Just for the record : the video is not an April fool's joke. It's part of an event when Nissan showed their progress on autonomous driving during an event in London. Here is the same demo with the Guardian (it didn't go as well)

The "bloody hell" reminds me of what I say to AP sometimes.

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

^^
Thanks for all the comments.
I meant 2020 .. 2010 was typo.

 

[Mike M]

Umm... Anyone watch the MX autonomous video from LAST YEAR? Its one thing to put out a demo vehicle with sensors that will never be in a production Leaf, its another thing to actually roll out a true road worthy autopilot system. So this is to come out in 3 years? I can tell you my AP2 system improved tremendously pre and post 8.1 update.

That MX autonomous video was done with hardware already built into our AP2 vehicles. Tesla will have perhaps a half a billion miles (or more) of real world data before Nissan puts out its first autonomous system. I guess what I'm saying is I'm not too worried.

Tesla also has the benefits of a nationwide highway based supercharging network. Good luck on a longer trip trekking into a downtown area or to a Nissan dealer for a Chademo charger.

I know people love their Leaf's, and all the power to them. I personally find them one of the ugliest cars known to mankind (though the redesign looks better). We have a PHEV CMax (didn't consider the Leaf because of its limited range for our purposes) which was our gateway to buying a Tesla. I think they are still entirely different buying constituencies. Tesla is moving down market with the Model 3 to take Leaf buyers. When Nissan builds a great Infiniti EV with autopilot like functions, then I'll see it as more of a challenge.

 

[Lee_B]

I'd stick with Tesla for the moment. Tesla has been an innovator in autonomous driving but the AP2 and Mobieye fued has set them back. I would expect a leaf to be on par with a current MS autonomy by 2020. I expect Telsa to have succeeded this by then. I am curious what hardware setup and vendor they are using

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

Umm... Anyone watch the MX autonomous video from LAST YEAR? Its one thing to put out a demo vehicle with sensors that will never be in a production Leaf, its another thing to actually roll out a true road worthy autopilot system. So this is to come out in 3 years? I can tell you my AP2 system improved tremendously pre and post 8.1 update.

Sorry to temper things with reality, but AP2 is nowhere near to autonomous today, and leaf's video seems far more convincing than Tesla's videos. Also Tesla has a track record of missing deadlines - your Model X will not be self driving for at least another year, maybe two. On the other hand, leaf has had a pretty good track record of meeting it's deadlines and promises.

 

[Shock-On-T]

Sorry to temper things with reality, but AP2 is nowhere near to autonomous today, and leaf's video seems far more convincing than Tesla's videos. Also Tesla has a track record of missing deadlines - your Model X will not be self driving for at least another year, maybe two. On the other hand, leaf has had a pretty good track record of meeting it's deadlines and promises.

I initially thought the same thing, but then I remembered the autonomous driving video Tesla put out last October. Admittedly it was probably the 15th run of the day before they got a good video, but it was still autonomous, and it was 6 months ago. They will be a lot further ahead by now.
Add to that, Nissan still has the task ahead of them to transition from their 10 computer, 4 lidar test bed to a camera/radar system like Tesla.

 

[Bladerskb]

I initially thought the same thing, but then I remembered the autonomous driving video Tesla put out last October. Admittedly it was probably the 15th run of the day before they got a good video, but it was still autonomous, and it was 6 months ago. They will be a lot further ahead by now.
Add to that, Nissan still has the task ahead of them to transition from their 10 computer, 4 lidar test bed to a camera/radar system like Tesla.

not really cause its been all hands on deck for ap1 parity.
secondly they can simply use SOC from nvidia or amd just like tesla and other companies does. aka There is no task.
lastly before 2020 when lidar goes mass production it will literally be dirt cheap.

Lastly Nissan plans to deliver level 3 highway in 2018.

2018 — Level 3: Two years later, in 2018, Nissan will introduce ProPILOT 2.0 with "multiple-lane control." ProPILOT 2.0 will add autonomous lane changes to the ProPILOT capabilities.

Timeline: The future of driverless cars, from Audi to Volvo

Kinda like EAP but actually level 3 instead of a glorified level 2.

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

^^ All good points.

Either way, I am very happy to see a major manufacturer step into the EV + AP game. I hope more follow.

 

[abasile]

There's one thing that Nissan and the Leafs have going for them and it's RELIABILITY! Our Leaf and all the members in our club that still have Leafs are ROCK SOLID! Zero issues.

Yes, our LEAF has been quite reliable, aside from some relatively minor issues.

However, we continue to be appalled at Nissan's handling of overly-rapid battery capacity loss. Like many others, our LEAF's capacity loss has been bad (-27% or so at 6 years and 67K miles) but it's not bad enough to qualify for a warranty replacement. Instead, Nissan gave us $50 in free public charging. And the price of a new battery is greater than the value of the car.

While Tesla vehicles have had reliability issues, Tesla has been good (not perfect of course) at caring for their customers, and battery capacity loss has generally not been an issue. Plus, we prefer Tesla's approach to sales.

While we're keeping our old LEAF (why not, it's almost fully depreciated!), we fully intend to stick with Tesla going forward.

 

[Mike M]

I have to agree with @ShockOnT and @Bladerskb. Nissan has yet to demonstrate any kind of autonomy in an actual production vehicle with production equipment. 10 computers and 4 lidar units are not anything near a production unit. Is the price of Lidar coming down? Sure, but Lidar has serious issues in a variety of weather conditions when you most need assistance and even with a lower price, its still not going to be cheap, especially if you need 4 units.

Tesla's combination of cameras, radar and ultrasonics makes a lot of sense to me and I have yet to see how Lidar is the holy grail when it doesn't function well in rain, snow, etc.

Tesla with the MX footage from last year ran fully automated on PRODUCTION equipment. Nissan ProPilot, just coming out this year, isn't at parity with AP1 or AP2 and there are very few real road miles on the system. ProPilot 2 which is supposed to come out late next year will simply be at parity (possibly, if it delivers) with what Tesla will have this year (minus all the miles of machine learning).

I welcome Nissan jumping into the AP fray. Its great. I'm glad Tesla has spurred other companies to begin to make safer vehicles. But until Nissan deploys a system even on parity with what Tesla has now, I can't see how anyone can claim Nissan will be ahead by 2020.

 

[cranker2k]

Apparently the next gen leaf will have 260 mile range, to be released in a few months, and they are planning on releasing this by 2010 -

Leafs actually deliver on the EV reliability promise, while Tesla doesn't.

So in 2020 when you have a leaf vs. tesla, which one would you pick? Also, why?

I think the Nissan person said 4 Lidars. If each Lidar is $80K (perm memory from forums last year), then how much is Nissan going to charge each car? This is still for show..on a pre-tested road. No different than what Tesla video has shown on its website.

 

[Mike M]

Actually @cranker2k I think its a lot different than the video Tesla showed. They showed a production vehicle, with production hardware. Pre-tested road or not, the difference between a vehicle using in production hardware vs a test mule with constantly calibrated test equipment is light years of difference.

 

[mblakele]

I think the Nissan person said 4 Lidars. If each Lidar is $80K (perm memory from forums last year), then how much is Nissan going to charge each car? This is still for show..on a pre-tested road. No different than what Tesla video has shown on its website.

I think we can expect those costs to crash: for example Google’s Waymo invests in LIDAR technology, cuts costs by 90 percent reported that Google's Waymo had cut LIDAR costs by 90% and expected more savings. When will they bottom out, and at what price? I don't think LIDAR will ever be as cheap as a camera, but maybe it's reasonable to expect $2,000 per LIDAR by the time Nissan gets to market?

That's still an extra $8,000 per vehicle for hardware, before any software costs. Contrast that with Tesla's approach using cameras, radar, and ultrasonic. Tesla already finds it economic to put the hardware in every vehicle, whether you buy EAP or not.