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Nissan Leaf sales down despite availability of new 30kW battery

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Or people who actually... you know... need to drive a car, rather than a reservation.

OK, though I suspect that many Model 3 reservation holders who aren't in one of those categories is probably driving an ICE until the Model 3 is here.

In actual fact we have many major investments now happening in software, battery/storage, powertrain and chassis design. Nearly every major OEM other than Fiat/Chrysler has major investments underway to support BEV and/or PHEV. We might denigrate less conventional innivations such as Fuel Cell and PSA's compressed energy storage but all the startups, potential deadends and marginal advances are contributing to the state of the art, as well as progress to potential breakthroughs. Every global energy storage manufacturers is now building new li-ion capacity with an amazing variety of chemistries, form factors, and materials. It is hard to exaggerate the importance of all the pure science in both chemistry and materials.

There is a lot of EV development work going on out there. I think the major car companies are doing it because of a combination of CARB and insurance in case the Model 3 is the hit it looks like it will be. Doing a bit of R&D is a rather small investment though compared to the effort it will take to produce enough batteries. Companies like LG Chem have a bit of idle capacity, but it's estimated that LG Chem could only ramp up to build about another 20-25K more Bolts a year if demand warranted it based on their current idle capacity.

The numbers the majors are planning on building for the foreseeable future are still lower than Tesla is producing today. VW is the only major car maker that has announced plans to build 1 million or more EVs at any point in the future and they don't plan to get there until 2025. They also haven't made any announcements about what sort of range these EVs will have.

There is a lot of hype about the Bolt, but even if they wanted to GM won't be able to build more than 50K of them a year for at least 3-4 years. They could ramp up to build 1 million chassis a year, but there won't be enough batteries.

And there is a lot of research going on into better battery chemistries, but as Elon warned in the shareholder's meeting, 99% of the hype about batteries is false. Even if the killer chemistry combo is discovered tomorrow, it will take years to get it into mass production, anywhere from 5-10 years depending on how different the production process is.

Only one company today has in motion the plan to build over 1 million long range BEVs a year. VW is on the first step of that journey, but so far their own Gigafactory is vaporware. Tesla is the only one with an actual Gigafactory, even if it is only a slice of the final building. Elon said Panasonic's battery making hardware is in the plant now. If it hasn't already started, they are very close to starting production of batteries in Nevada.

Having all the tech in the world is great, but the winner is going to be who can produce the most number of batteries in the least amount of time. Today Tesla is about 3-4 years ahead of everyone.

Just now we are in a similar position with vehicles as we were 110 years ago when steam, electric, alcohol, gasoline and kerosene all were competing. Fits and starts are happening.

Though i think the head and shoulders best tech is the BEV. ICE cars will still have a niche though, there are still places in the world where you can't plug in. You can drive across Australia's Outback in an ute with the bed loaded with extra fuel tanks. You could technically do it in a BEV too, but you'd have to stop every 300 miles, set up solar cells and sit there for a day or more waiting for the car to charge.

Just as Elon pointed out the critical roles of both Daimler and Toyota in the survival of Tesla it seems to me we should be quite supportive of the huge influence Nissan has had globally with the Leaf, and the French and Japanese domestic producers have had in popularising small urban vehicles market. Both of those had the signal advantage in already having an established micro=vehicle market. (note: as a former owner of both a Honda N600 and an S800, plus driver of a BMW Isetta 300 I admit to bias in favor of microcars)

Overall microcars are not popular. Daimler is losing its shirt on Smartcar. I think they lose $5000 for every car sold.

So, NIssan has a bit of first-mover disadvantage in the popular BEV class. They have produced more than any other non-Chinese builder (we don't often discuss BYD or the others but they are by far the largest producers of BEV's in the world) and sell the Denza luxury cars that they developed in a 50:50 JV with Daimler.

China is another world as far as the car market goes. I believe a fair number of their cars wouldn't be considered highway safe in western countries. Another thing is China is one of the few growing car markets. Almost anything will sell. In the west, it's mostly a replacement market and buyers are more finicky. Supply exceeds demand for the most part.

With all the development and growth around the world it seems to me Nissan will do fine just as soon as their own battery supplies grow and their other investments in BEV infrastructure mature. Frankly, despite all I have said above I have no question at all that Tesla Model S helped catalyze the German OEM's who were in turn driven by the EU and domestic European regulators who were given confidence by all the pretty decent short range EV's avalable there but above all by the realization that the Model S did it all without many compromises.

In short my own OEM kudos, just after Testa itself, go to Daimler, Toyota and Nissan. More or less in that order.

Nissan will probably be one of the survivors, but the Leaf's popularity is falling. Oddly I've seen a couple of Leafs around town the last few months. I hadn't seen any for a long time and now they are getting common.
 
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I think it depends where you live. Areas with good EV penetration generally have certain dealers know to put an effort towards their brand of EV.

Definitely not. Hard no.

I live in Seattle area - this is the 3rd biggest E.V. market in the country after Silicon Valley & Atlanta, and I had to go to 4 different Leaf dealerships to buy ours.

* The first dealer walked around his lot for 5 minutes and couldn't figure out where they parked the Leafs, so told us he'll call us back if he finds it. He never did.
* At the second dealership, the guy selling Leafs only work Tuesday to Friday. We were there on a Saturday. Again a promise to call us when the salesman gets back in. He never did.
* The third dealer was helpful, but didn't have a 30kWh in stock, but he could find one from California.
* The fourth dealer didn't know what the difference between a 24kWh and 30kWh was and insisted the 2015 and 2016 models were the same. But he was able to finally figure it out and find one - but again not in stock.

We bought from the 3rd dealer, but it was not a pleasant experience. Even he was apologetic about the vehicle. More of an "it is what it is, if you really want one", rather than really trying to sell it.

Then he spent 2 hours trying to tell us how to own an electric car, even though we clearly drove up in a Model S multiple times, and everybody in the dealership knew it...


So no. If you want to buy an E.V. even in this market, you pretty much have to have your mind made up before you buy it. Dealers definitely don't make the effort to sell it.
 
I think something that needs to be given more thought is the significance of the lines the day of the Model 3 event. As we all know, there is not significant advertising by Tesla Motors. This means that the people who put down deposits were actively looking at different BEVs and concluded that purchasing vehicles such as the leaf are less desirable than waiting two years for a Tesla with a thousand USD reservation.

I understand that on a BEV forum there is a bias for a low range BEV being more desirable than an equally sized (far more usable) ICE. Just today, I had to make an unexpected round trip of 130 miles at 70 mph. If I had a Bolt, I would have likely been fine. If I had a Tesla, I would have certainly been fine. With my 2002 Accord, I was fine. I would not have been able to do this with a sub-200 EPA rated BEV.

I'm happy to see the Leaf on the road, and I thought about getting one if my ICE gave out before the Model 3 is available. Back to Tesla, I was surprised when I caught up to my dad the week after the reveal and heard that he nearly made a reservation, but had questions regarding home charging (relatively old house). He knows about the Leaf and that it is a BEV, but the only time Iv'e heard him mention it is when he sees one in traffic.
 
As we all know, there is not significant advertising by Tesla Motors. This means that the people who put down deposits were actively looking at different BEVs and concluded that purchasing vehicles such as the leaf are less desirable than waiting two years for a Tesla with a thousand USD reservation.

I was not actively looking at BEVs (or any car for that matter). The model 3 drew me in, and I quickly parted with some money.
 
Though i think the head and shoulders best tech is the BEV. ICE cars will still have a niche though, there are still places in the world where you can't plug in. You can drive across Australia's Outback in an ute with the bed loaded with extra fuel tanks. You could technically do it in a BEV too, but you'd have to stop every 300 miles, set up solar cells and sit there for a day or more waiting for the car to charge.

I'm not sure that a conventional ICE is the best option even for that sort of environment. Even with no plugs around for much of a trip, a PHEV or EREV has substantial advantages - everything from more definite starts in all types of weather and longer ICE life to extended brake life and better traction.

The ideal Australian bush PHEV hasn't really come along yet, but as the batteries and motors continue to get better and cheaper, I believe that it will. In principle the Mitsubishi Outlander isn't too far away, I suppose.
 
Outlander PHEV
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum • View topic - Australian ROAD TRIP.
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A hybrid probably is a better bet due to the fuel economy, but I don't know of any hybrid pickup/utes yet. I wouldn't want to carry my extra fuel inside the passenger compartment of an SUV.

Interesting trip story though.
 
A hybrid probably is a better bet due to the fuel economy, but I don't know of any hybrid pickup/utes yet. I wouldn't want to carry my extra fuel inside the passenger compartment of an SUV.

Interesting trip story though.

GM made a whole string of them, full size SUVs and Pickups both. The "2-mode" hybrid transmission for those was the parent that the Volt's powertrain was developed from.

They were expensive, and despite an Atkinson engine still only got ~20 mpg (big improvement over the more typical 15, but not an impressive number in isolation.)

As batteries get cheaper and denser, making pure hybrids makes less sense - with all the same pieces except for the larger battery pack and the charger, you can have a car/truck that does some commutes without gas - a big benefit for the consumer, and also a big help for CAFE averages...
 
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I think it is a lost opportunity for Nissan really. For a majority of us (I assume), the jump to full EV requires an extra push and that can only come by way of a significantly better car - better in every way imaginable. Nissan failed to see this but Tesla did.

Part of the problem is that not even Nissan themselves feel totally confident about a pure EV future and their products reflect that lack of confidence. In contrast, Tesla and Elon totally believe in a mass transition to EV and their products show that optimism.
 
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Or, perhaps many are simply waiting for the Bolt to hit the lots. I would like to think Tesla M3 is a major part of this but lets not discount the Bolt and it's pending sales.

Almost definitely part of it, but a much smaller part than the Model 3 from everything we've seen.

As one example, from surveys we conducted last year, it was clear that a ton more EV enthusiasts were planning to buy the Model 3 than the Bolt (no surprise, of course).

Here's one chart on that:

most-likely-to-buy-electric-cars.png


There was essentially the same question asked of current EV drivers too. Similar result.

For more of my commentary on it, you can click the link to the story above, download the full report (it's free), or check out my presentation at the EV Technology & Transport Summit in Cocoa, Florida:


Slides are in this article.
 
Apparently, not that many of those guys.

Hard to believe a significant segment of the 373k would not have bought a LEAF if there was no Model 3 on the horizon.

Some are probably also waiting on LEAF 2.0.

Definitely. Leaf 2.0, Nissan IDS, a long-range BMW EV, a long-range VW EV (really)... see my comment and the chart above. But the Model 3 is of course the biggie.
 
A
In 2015 US sales for BEVs and PHEVs were down across the board except for the Model S (only comparing cars that were available in 2014). Some of it may have been due to new models of the Volt and Leaf coming out, but gas prices probably did hit the market hard. The only people who buy non-Tesla EVs are environmentalist buyers, people who are buying for some local incentive, or people who are trying to save gas money on their commute. When gas prices go down, the last buyers go back to ICEs. Some local incentives have gone away too, which drive away the inventive buyers leaving the environmentalist buyers who aren't enough to keep the niche alive.

The Ford Fusion Energi is up a little from last year, but most non-Tesla cars have flat sales, or sales are down from a year ago:
Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard



I do believe we should be moving away from gasoline for economic reasons if nothing else. There is still plenty of oil, but what's left is getting more and more expensive to extract and takes more energy to refine. Plus a significant portion of the world's highest quality oil is in one of the most unstable regions of the world.

That said, when I started shopping for a car, I started looking at ICEs. I wanted better gas mileage, but I wasn't interested in an electric. I bought a Model S not because it was an electric, but because it was a better car than anything else I looked at.

Elon Musk does want to save the world with electric cars, or at least help save the world, but he also knows the way to do it is to win over people who aren't out to save the world but just want a better car and Tesla is doing that. The only drawbacks to Teslas available right now are: cost and range and maybe for some size. They are addressing the cost issue with the Model 3, and range is the biggest inherent limitation to the technology. Batteries available today have about 1/30 the energy density of gasoline. The supercharger network goes a long ways towards addressing that limitation though.

In all other areas what Tesla has today is superior to ICEs in everything but creature comforts for those who want their cars to pamper them. That's a huge advantage.

We don't know 100% for sure the Model 3 is going to live up to the hype, but Tesla doesn't tend to disappoint when delivering new products.

A slightly simplistic take on who buys EVs, but overall on point, imho. But I do think the biggest sales killers have been the next-gen EVs people have been waiting for (the new Volt that is now out, the Bolt, long-range EVs from major automakers, and most of all, the Model 3).

Here's a table from my latest US EV sales report (Electric Car Sales (Monthly Reports)) that help to demonstrate the changes in different models (note that there's no big pending PHEV threat to hurt Volt & Fusion Energi sales):

US-EV-Sales-2016-May-B.png
 
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