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Nissan Leaf
- Thread starter efusco
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dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Nissan celebrates fifth anniversary of all-electric LEAF - Nissan Online Newsroom
Old school corporate mentality. Announce in December what you might have done by January the next year.
I'm sure they'll hit 200,000 but I'd rather hear about it after the fact or on the day of than some estimate.
And there is always the difference between produced, shipped to dealers, and sold to end users.
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Chickenlittle
Banned
my daughters leaf just totaled. T boned by a teenager who ran red light. Car totaled. All people safe without injury. What do you all think I should hold out for. It was a pristine 2013 leaf SL with 17,000 miles on it. Had surround cameras and Bose system? The car was hit in both doors front and rear panel, the airbag went off and copious green liquid draining electronics all dead can't even get mileage off the panel. I am concerned that the insurance company may give us a low ball amount.
And Tesla launching a car in September 2015 they can't actually produce/sell for months to come (which they must have known when they sent out the invitations, see various leaks) is new school corporate mentality?
flankspeed8
Member
You should be able to pick up a used one for a great price. Up here in MN, you can find some pre-owned for between 15-19k. Nice thing is that you don't have to worry about battery degradation from excessive heat up here. Sorry about your bad luck and glad all are ok.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
New school mentality is to come to Brand X fan site and talk smack about brand ad infinitum.
State everything said by leadership of Brand X is dubious or a down right lie.
Every rose colored projection about the future from Brand X Competitors take as an article of faith.
I guess that is new school mentality.
As a Leaf driver, I can safely say the resale value in Leafs is very poor. It is good for people looking for used ones though.
See Looking for New Leaf ... - My Nissan Leaf Forum for the residual on my 2-year (24K mile total) '13 Leaf SV w/premium and quick charge inlet + LED packages vs. the offered discounted price, that was still too high.
In July 2015, I bought a used '13 Leaf SV w/premium package (so no QC + LED package) for $9,325 + tax and license (saga at Wholesale value of the 2013 Leaf @Auction-October '15 - Page 8 - My Nissan Leaf Forum).
However, shortly after I bought my used ones, oddly, used prices went up. I haven't followed closely but it seems something similar would now be at least $1K to ~$1.5K higher.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Some used leafs I'd be willing to buy if mine bit the bullet tomorrow.
Keep in mind if you are discussing vs a insurance claim more than half the dealer ads for a Leaf will misidentify a SV vs SL. Use the pictures to decide for yourself if the trim is right.
2012 VIN 18547 $8000
2012 VIN 19484 $8500 (2 bar loser, mfg 2/12)
plenty of random 2011/2012s around $9000 I'd ignore or buy only if the better ones disappeared.
2013 VIN 407553 $9999 (no pics, if I lived nearby I'd check it out).
2013 VIN 415274 $10200 (12 bar car, no chademo)
But I expect when the 30 kWh packs are more common these 24 kWh pack leafs will drop in value again.
Personally since I have 2 vehicles too many right now if my leaf got Tboned I'd wait until spring/summer and watch for a better deal on a SL with less pack degradation and drive my gas car (uggh) until...
Keep in mind if you are discussing vs a insurance claim more than half the dealer ads for a Leaf will misidentify a SV vs SL. Use the pictures to decide for yourself if the trim is right.
2012 VIN 18547 $8000
2012 VIN 19484 $8500 (2 bar loser, mfg 2/12)
plenty of random 2011/2012s around $9000 I'd ignore or buy only if the better ones disappeared.
2013 VIN 407553 $9999 (no pics, if I lived nearby I'd check it out).
2013 VIN 415274 $10200 (12 bar car, no chademo)
But I expect when the 30 kWh packs are more common these 24 kWh pack leafs will drop in value again.
Personally since I have 2 vehicles too many right now if my leaf got Tboned I'd wait until spring/summer and watch for a better deal on a SL with less pack degradation and drive my gas car (uggh) until...
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I've got a volt now that we have to charge twice a day to maintain our 98% EV percentage. It would be preferable to only charge once overnight. What is the realistic range during the winter of a 2013 ish leaf? Each bar is how many miles with the heat on, etc?
It looks like you need the mid trim to get the 6.6kW charger? I don't care about fast charging.
It looks like you need the mid trim to get the 6.6kW charger? I don't care about fast charging.
The 6.6 charger is an option on the S trim. Almost all of the S trims have 6.6 charger included. You'll get lots of info here: My Nissan Leaf Forum - Index page
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I don't think the leaf is practical as a replacement for my volt yet. It needs to be able to go 84 miles between charges to make sense. New and not in the winter it can probably just do it. 30k miles on the battery and in the winter, not so much.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
usable battery on a leaf is 21 kWh out of 24 kWh brand new and only if you are willing to drive it from full charge, past a low battery warning, and then past a very low battery warning.
Up the battery to 30 kWh and the usable is 25.75 kWh again brand new and only if you are willing to drive it from full charge, past a low battery warning, and then past a very low battery warning.
If you know how the Model S drives around your area you can expect to get much better miles per kwh or use less wh per mile.
5.0 miles per kWh or 200 wh per mile is tires at sidewall max driving the speed limit no ac no heat kind of math.
worst I've done in TN is 3.5 miles per kWh or 285 wh per mile and that was driving fast with the heated steering wheel and seat heater on (fast highway speeds).
Imagine your usage in that continuum and you might do a little worse in VA if it gets colder there than here in TN or if you speed more or if you just have to use cabin heat instead of or in addition to seat heat.
I'll do a short table for miles/kwh and the miles you'd get maxed out on a 24 kWh or 30 kWh leaf.
eff. 24kwh 30kwh
usable 21 kWh 25.75 kWh
5.0 105 miles 128 miles
4.7 98 miles 121 miles
4.5 94 miles 115 miles
4.3 90 miles 110 miles
4.0 84 miles 103 miles
3.8 79 miles 97 miles
3.6 75 miles 92 miles
3.4 71 miles 87 miles
So it can be done but you have to lay off the cabin heat (there is a mod that adds a switch that allows running defrost with no heat or with heat as needed), drive slow enough, keep your tire pressure high, and be ready to grab a better EV down the road when the battery degrades.
If you don't mind the looks you can even swap out the 16" or 17" rims for some 15" rims and get even more range. It's a mod I plan to do before I buy my next set of tires.
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I assume you will use a 15" tire with the same outer diameter as the original tires? I am curious, how do you know that there will be a mileage improvement? Do you know others that have tried this? Is it supposed weight savings?
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Much testing done with the Gen II Prius between 15" 16" and 17" rims and tires. I'm applying that knowledge to the Leaf. I'll not get into all the why it saves/helps/is better but if you'd like to see some napkin math on my Leaf the swap is on the order of
OEM tires have two choices
17" 215/50/17 at 25.5" diameter and 815 revs per mile (RPM)
16" 205/55/16 at 24.9" diameter and 837 revs per mile (RPM)
I have 16" OEMs I don't remember the stock rim weight but I want to say around 18 pounds. OEM 205/55/16 tires are 20 pounds but the used Leaf I got had Goodyear tires that are 23 pounds a piece.
Depending on the tire I get they'll be 18 to 21 pounds each which may or may not save weight. But the new rims I'm looking at are 13.4 pounds a piece per spec. It might save 4-6 pounds per corner.
That'd make the weight per corner comparison something like 38-40 pounds per on OEM and 32-34 pounds per on a 15" with lighter rims and better tires.
In the process it will allow me to get more efficient tires in terms of lines of tires that sell at 15" that don't sell at 17" and maybe have limited size choices at 16". I'll also be targeting the larger diameter/lower RPM tires to make the speedometer more accurate.
I'll have choices in several size tires
195/65/15 25.0" diameter and 832 RPM
205/60/15 25.2" diameter and 828 RPM
205/65/15 25.5" diameter and 817 RPM
each with a different variety of tire brands that sell LRR tires in those sizes and thus a variety of tread patterns, tire weights, etcetera.
In general I'd get the best efficiency with the 195/65/15 at the cost of keeping similar but slightly better speedometer inaccuracy vs the OEM 16".
I'd get better speedometer accuracy with one of the 205/xx/15 choices but at a slight cost in efficiency and tire weight.
Price and availability might decide which 15" size I choose more than efficiency but almost anything I pick at 15" will be an improvement over the 16" tires that are already on the car.
It's why I hope the Tesal Model 3 will have something lower than 18" tires as an option or that at least they put smaller brake calipers on it so that you can downsize the stock rims to something like a 17". LRR high efficiency tires just aren't common in really large rim sizes and/or the ones that exist are the wrong RPMs to keep the speedometer/traction control/ABS systems happy.
oh and Leaf or Tesla I don't want to use spacers to put my tires wider than the body. I'm not looking for dune buggy looks, I'm looking for better tires that most people won't even notice on my car.
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Dhanson, thank you for the in depth explanation. Basically, the 15's give you a wider choice of tires. I little greater diameter is less revs per mile. Considering EV torque at low RPM, this should work very well.
Thanks from me as well for the in-depth analysis of the leaf's range. Unfortunately it won't work for my use case. The volt is our daily kid hauler and is not driven by me. It has to have the range with no sacrifices (heat, etc.) I've been keeping my eye out for a really good deal on an S. Even a 40 would work. I don't need supercharging etc. However a smaller car would be better. I guess I'll be waiting for the model 3, or the bolt (even though I don't like the name.)
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Yes, the Volt suits your needs much better than the Leaf. I like the Volt but with a family of 5 it was ruled out.
Fair enough. We don't fit into the volt either as an entire family. We've got my S and the soon to arrive X for that.
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