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Nissan Leaf
- Thread starter efusco
- Start date
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
He has it right, with the caveat that for some people an EV will not work right now, maybe not ever. If you are one of the few that actually travels 100's of miles at a time very frequently an EV probably isn't practical. Also if you have no place to charge one it won't work. For the rest of us, they are great. I hate driving my ICE but will be forced to for the rest of the winter. I refuse to have my EV dissolved by road salt, and the less than 6 inches of ground clearance won't get me through snow drifts.
I agree he has it right. And I agree that once you have the EV bug it's nearly impossible to "kill". But as far as mass adoption ... we will need to wait several years to prove that the batteries hold up and that their replacement cost is "reasonable" (a different # in each person's opinion) in consideration of the TCO vis-a-vis the ICE.
Infrastructure is not a problem in my mind. Even the 100-mile EV can be the primary (largest # of miles) daily transport for the super majority of families. Charging is done at home overnight. LEAF can do 180miles with one 30 minute QuickCharge stop over to destination; hardly an inconvenience. (Two+ QCs/day (or QC every day) affects battery life according to Nissan). The occasional long-distance trip (400+) is done with either a] compromise (long stop overs) or b] other (2nd, rental, borrowed, etc) car.
Infrastructure is not a problem in my mind. Even the 100-mile EV can be the primary (largest # of miles) daily transport for the super majority of families. Charging is done at home overnight. LEAF can do 180miles with one 30 minute QuickCharge stop over to destination; hardly an inconvenience. (Two+ QCs/day (or QC every day) affects battery life according to Nissan). The occasional long-distance trip (400+) is done with either a] compromise (long stop overs) or b] other (2nd, rental, borrowed, etc) car.
The distinction is "buy" not "drive" that makes that mental shift to never wanting anything but an EV again. If you were inclined enough to "try" the new way of driving that doing it every day will surely convince you that you made the right move. Now add to that you know that other electric cars will be soon be out in droves you can easily convince yourself to never go back to gasoline.
It took a couple days to a week of EV driving before I considered driving an ICE to be odd. Every time I drive my wife's car, I am re-acquainted with that annoying input lag that is unavoidable with ICE. Her car is quiet as far as ICE goes but it nevertheless sounds like a roaring machine until I my ears re-adjust.
I'm with everyone else here--I have no interest in purchasing an ICE vehicle now. Even the most premium luxury cars seem low-tech because their engine is, well, decidedly low-tech. And the thought of having to use gas stations again? I'll pass.
Good question. Tough to answer. With the Volt it's just too easy to fall into a routine to rely on the "generator" (GM speak! ) ... ahem ... gasoline engine (!). But for someone VERY curious "what would it be like if I didn't have to go to the gas station anymore?" ... and well disciplined (to plug in at every opportunity, including at work) ... it might just be very much the same. Problem is, of course, if you get a Volt you're at a disadvantage right out of the gate (only 40 miles without gas). The 40 could still work for a lot of people, but it's too easy to let is slip. With the LEAF you have 100 and you have an INCENTIVE to make it work (no gas to fall back on). (Not that I think it would be a problem, as commented before, that the 100 is too limiting; it's not for the super majority of cases.)
As I read someone comment somewhere -- in context to "Americans only drive 40 miles a day" -- the LEAF is just like the Volt: 40 miles, plus a 60 mile reserve !
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PeterW
Member
Maybe Volt drivers will be annoyed enough to make sure their next purchase is an EV.
Just a thuoght.
PeterW
Member
Jaff
Active Member
It is a good question...my instinct says no, they will not have the same perspective...chiefly, because anyone who has performed even a modicum of research into the Volt (or other hybrids or extended range EVs) knows that they are not the true answer (due to their ICE components)...having driven nothing but hybrids for the last 5 years, I can honestly say although I feel that I was "ahead of the curve" & "doing my part", when driving the hybrids, I was always completely cognizant of when the ICE component was powering the vehicle (most of the time) thus I was no different than an ICE vehicle when this happened.
With the Volt, I think you will always have (in the back of your mind) the knowledge that with hard acceleration or driving with your battery pack exhausted, you're no different than a regular ICE vehicle once the ICE component fires up...
With the Volt, I think you will always have (in the back of your mind) the knowledge that with hard acceleration or driving with your battery pack exhausted, you're no different than a regular ICE vehicle once the ICE component fires up...
I agree with your point, but I keep remembering how every gas station was complaining when gas was at around $4 in 2008, that they were going broke. They don't make much on the gas and people wasn't being enough of the convenience store stuff.
So a a massive uptake of EV's and big upswing in gas prices means there will be sold a lot less gas, and hence many of the gas stations will go under. The interesting question then is what does that do with the gasoline cars range? Will those driving around 100's of miles each day bring their own 20gallon tank of extra gasoline? Or how will they handle that?
Cobos
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Range anxiety for ICE's. LOL. Still with 300+ mile range I doubt it will be a problem. Plus a smart gas station owner could survive by adding some fast charge ports and a little sit down cafe with internet access, generating extra income as customers wait for a charge.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sfeva/message/2842
The owner (to be) lives on the Peninsula and will be getting a black one.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sfeva/message/2847
The owner (to be) lives on the Peninsula and will be getting a black one.
Nissan Leaf: Car of the year 2011! Not sure if this has been registered on our site yet, but this is great news, another break through for the EV community:
http://www.caroftheyear.org/
http://www.caroftheyear.org/
A 2011 Wards "best engine" (er., motor) choice too:
http://wardsauto.com/ar/names_best_engines_101207/
http://wardsauto.com/ar/names_best_engines_101207/
Tesla seems lacking from the EPA site:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
Perhaps the Roadster volumes are too low for them to be listed there?
They do show a picture of Model S and Roadster here:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml
But the economy guides you can download seem to show only gasoline and hybrid vehicles, not pure EVs.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
Perhaps the Roadster volumes are too low for them to be listed there?
They do show a picture of Model S and Roadster here:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml
But the economy guides you can download seem to show only gasoline and hybrid vehicles, not pure EVs.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
You can Google "tesla roadster sticker" and get two results under the older format, not this new sticker with MPGe and not sure if under the same testing (warning, large pictures):
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/11/16/automobiles/sticker-3.jpg
http://iggyz.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/Tesla/CIMG3799.JPG
Basically it is:
2009 Tesla Roadster
32/33/32.45 (kW-hr/100miles city/highway/combined), 104 MPGe
2010 Tesla Roadster Sport
29/32/30.35 (kW-hr/100miles city/highway/combined), 111 MPGe
2011 Nissan Leaf
32/37/34 (kW-hr/100miles city/highway/combined), 99 MPGe
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