Nissan wants Tesla Model 3 reservation holders to buy LEAFs, launches new ad campaign

[bonnie]

I hope Nissan sells a bunch of Leafs. Think of all the people educated about care of EVs, including understanding charging, etc. Their next car will be a Tesla, most likely.

Leaf today means that much less oil burned. I'm good with that. It also means educating consumers on someone else's dime. I'm extra good with that.

 

[BluestarE3]

I didn't expect an ad campaign like this from Nissan; usually they avoid challenging Tesla. However, the reaction from the media and people in comments seems to be ridicule. The current Leaf simply isn't comparable to the Model 3.

I think this ad will backfire on them; it just comes across as sourgrapes and an act of desperation. Anyone who wanted a Nissan Leaf (or any other available EV) would have gotten one a already and not bothered to put down a $1,000 reservation and wait at least 1.5 years. Those 400,000 are looking for something else and it's not just any old electric car.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Sort of. 200 miles? No, 215+. Styling? Size? Number of doors? Hatchback? Horsepower? Battery size? Seating? Supercharging? Autopilot? RWD/FWD/AWD? Most the answerable questions were not firm until the presentation, and still nobody really knows what the Model 3 metrics are.

How is 200+ miles not inclusive of 215+? And again, Tesla has a good track record on the rest (I pointed out the things that people felt didn't match expectations and the list is quite short).

Contrast this with the EV track record of Nissan or the other major automakers, and it is far less favorable. Anyways, my point is that it is not just the badge. If Tesla's previous vehicles were the Leaf, or i3, or Spark EV for example, people would not have the same reaction.

 

[1208]

Good!

 

[dhanson865]

let me correct you, in reality under normal driving you can expect a little more than 72 miles of range from the car, 107 if you never exceed 35mph is possible, factor in cold, wind or range and ranges take a big hit. After using your 70+ miles of range without chademo charging, using L2 charging
you're down for 6+ hours to recharge.
this might work well for people who have well defined travel patterns, commuting for example. I am not ragging on the LEAF, I owned one, but for many people 70+ miles or range
just doesn't cut it.

I think you need to add kWh into that post. What you say is right about the 24 kWh pack but not the 30 kWh pack and I think you are confusing the two.

24 kWh pack is advertised at 84 miles range
30 kWh pack is advertised at 107 miles range

I can defiantly get 100+ miles range driving a 24 kWh pack at low speeds like you claim I need to. I can get way more on the 30 kWh pack. Lets toss some real numbers out.

24 kWh pack has about 21.4 kWh usable ignoring turtle mode and top/bottom protection
30 kWh pack has about 25.75 kWh usable given the same caveats.

Multiply that by your favorite miles per and the 30 kWh pack will do


129 miles at 5.0 m/kwh
121 miles at 4.7 m/kwh
115 miles at 4.5 m/kwh
108 miles at 4.2 m/kwh
103 miles at 4.0 m/kwh

I'm averaging 4.4 miles per kWh with my 2012 for the last year. I see well over 5 in the ideal situations (warm with no AC use) and below 4 in the winter (cold and heated seat/heated steering wheel/cabin heat use) but tend to hang out in the mid to high 4s most of the year even when using AC or heated seats/wheel.

Maybe your "normal driving" isn't so normal or you are talking about the 24 kWh pack which is


105 miles at 5.0 m/kwh
99 miles at 4.7 m/kwh
95 miles at 4.5 m/kwh
88 miles at 4.2 m/kwh
84 miles at 4.0 m/kwh

or maybe you are just afraid to drive the leaf below the low battery warning and are ignoring a huge amount of range between low battery warning, very low battery warning, and just above turtle.

Seriously there is no reason for a Florida driver to wimp out at 70 miles in a brand new leaf. Now after a year or two of degradation sure, I'll grant you the leaf range shrinks faster on a yearly basis than any other EV.

But that doesn't mean you can't get 100+ miles in real world driving. If you lose 5% a year to heat your max range drops noticeably, just don't blame that on slow vs normal driving.

 

[kort677]

I think you need to add kWh into that post. What you say is right about the 24 kWh pack but not the 30 kWh pack and I think you are confusing the two.

24 kWh pack is advertised at 84 miles range
30 kWh pack is advertised at 107 miles range

I can defiantly get 100+ miles range driving a 24 kWh pack at low speeds like you claim I need to. I can get way more on the 30 kWh pack. Lets toss some real numbers out.

24 kWh pack has about 21.4 kWh usable ignoring turtle mode and top/bottom protection
30 kWh pack has about 25.75 kWh usable given the same caveats.

Multiply that by your favorite miles per and the 30 kWh pack will do


129 miles at 5.0 m/kwh
121 miles at 4.7 m/kwh
115 miles at 4.5 m/kwh
108 miles at 4.2 m/kwh
103 miles at 4.0 m/kwh

I'm averaging 4.4 miles per kWh with my 2012 for the last year. I see well over 5 in the ideal situations (warm with no AC use) and below 4 in the winter (cold and heated seat/heated steering wheel/cabin heat use) but tend to hang out in the mid to high 4s most of the year even when using AC or heated seats/wheel.

Maybe your "normal driving" isn't so normal or you are talking about the 24 kWh pack which is


105 miles at 5.0 m/kwh
99 miles at 4.7 m/kwh
95 miles at 4.5 m/kwh
88 miles at 4.2 m/kwh
84 miles at 4.0 m/kwh

or maybe you are just afraid to drive the leaf below the low battery warning and are ignoring a huge amount of range between low battery warning, very low battery warning, and just above turtle.

Seriously there is no reason for a Florida driver to wimp out at 70 miles in a brand new leaf. Now after a year or two of degradation sure, I'll grant you the leaf range shrinks faster on a yearly basis than any other EV.

But that doesn't mean you can't get 100+ miles in real world driving. If you lose 5% a year to heat your max range drops noticeably, just don't blame that on slow vs normal driving.

your fanboyism aside, I stand by my comments. real world driving, a mix of secondary and interstate driving you will not get more than 70+ miles per charge, if you then factor in poor climatic conditions your range will be even lower.
the limited range of the LEAF didn't work for me. It may me great for some people, people who drive defined daily routes with zero deviation, have the ability to charge at work or just use it as a "station" car will find the car more than adequate for their needs. this has nothing at all to do with any sort of "wimpiness" on my part this has to do with real world usage and this is after I drove one for almost 3 years. So my conclusion is that if you have the need for traveling more than 70 or so miles at a "normal' real world suburban pace without charging the LEAF just doesn't work well. trying to stack the LEAF up against the potential of the model 3 is apples to oranges.

 

[ggies07]

I hope Nissan sells a bunch of Leafs. Think of all the people educated about care of EVs, including understanding charging, etc. Their next car will be a Tesla, most likely.

Leaf today means that much less oil burned. I'm good with that. It also means educating consumers on someone else's dime. I'm extra good with that.

Yes yes, I agree as well, I want the transition to happen as quickly as possible. But come on, this is a horrible marketing approach. Make your product better and it will sell. So we have GM taking shots already saying they don't need customer deposits because they have enough cash and now Nissan with this ad. They just need to do a better job at their job.

 

[larmor]

This is hilarious. hahahaha.

Nissan wants Tesla Model 3 reservation holders to buy LEAFs, launches new ad campaign

Buy two leafs: keep one at your destination to drive back home....

 

[brianman]

I hope Nissan sells a bunch of Leafs. Think of all the people educated about care of EVs, including understanding charging, etc. Their next car will be a Tesla, most likely.

Leaf today means that much less oil burned. I'm good with that. It also means educating consumers on someone else's dime. I'm extra good with that.

There's a danger here as well though. For some, the Leaf is their entry into EVs -- past the gateway drug of Prius. The question is how they react. If they "like it enough" or "love it", then they'll stick with it and/or upgrade to Model 3 when available. If they hate it, then it may sour them on EVs forever -- first impressions are powerful.

 

[bonnie]

There's a danger here as well though. For some, the Leaf is their entry into EVs -- past the gateway drug of Prius. The question is how they react. If they "like it enough" or "love it", then they'll stick with it and/or upgrade to Model 3 when available. If they hate it, then it may sour them on EVs forever -- first impressions are powerful.

True. But (imo) the Leaf is nicely done. The sticking point will be the range & people can next look to Tesla if range is an issue.

 

[ohmman]

I have recommended LEAFs to multiple acquaintances and people who have asked about my Model S in the past. One friend recently bought a used LEAF and loves it. Another friend lives on Bainbridge Island and is likely to purchase one as the perfect around-the-island car.

The thing about the ad is that it's not disparaging to Tesla at all. It's just sending the message that there are reasonable PEVs available today. My guess is that it's more likely to help the used LEAF market (for people who will continue to wait on their Model 3).. but I'm sure Nissan knows what they're doing.

 

[Skotty]

I see what kort677 is saying. The average driver doesn't care about their driving efficiency. Maybe they might sort of care when they first buy, but then they regularly drive on the interstate at 80 MPH. And if they have the choice of interstate or slower local roads, they will choose interstate. The average driver will care about the range, if it's an EV. They will probably continue to care about this until range gets above 300 miles or fast charging stations become commonplace. So you have to consider how many miles someone like that will get out of their EV.

I know there are folks who get < 300 Wh / mile out of their Model S's. Assuming we have about 77 kWh available in an 85 kWh Model S, that should give you about 256 miles of range, close to rated. When I bought mine, however, I had no intention of changing my driving style to be more efficient, and I do a lot of interstate driving. I've been averaging about 355 Wh / mile. So I'm only getting about 217 miles of range. I'm fine with that, but I might not have been if I wasn't as educated and hadn't been expecting it already.

EV drivers and manufacturers alike tend to be a little overly optimistic about range. They want to defend what's out there now, because it's the right path the future. But the real defense needed, which will hopefully be in the not too distant future in no small part to the efforts of Tesla, is larger cheaper batteries. Once they are big enough, this debate disappears and everyone is fine with it. I'm my own opinion, I would put that range at 300 miles at my own driving style, which would be about 107 kWh usable, so maybe when we get to 120 kWh batteries.

One added disclaimer: I drive on long trips almost weekly for work (maybe 250 miles round trip), so I might be a little biased towards the longest possible ranges.

 

[bhzmark]

I hope Nissan sells a lot more Leafs with this or any other ad campaign.

No one would consider substituting a Leaf for the currently available Teslas. So Nissan will not be a competitor to Tesla until at least 2018. Meanwhile, the more Leaf buyers there are now, the faster BEVs will be adopted overall.

If they don't buy a Leaf, then they might buy an ICE.

Every Leaf sold makes helps the BEV market and helps the planet.

Go Nissan.

 

[deonb]

A better ad would have been: "While waiting for the car of your dreams, why not lease a Nissan Leaf so you can join the EV revolution now? Great deals on 2 and 3 years leases available now from your local Nissan dealer."

What would be a great idea is if Nissan would offer a flexible lease plan for Model 3 reservation holders with a lease duration that is specifically valid "Until your Model 3 is available for pickup".

I would bet they'd move at least 20'000 extra Leafs that way over a couple of months just under that program.

 

[ggies07]

Come on guys, the thread was never intended to be a "LEAF SUCKS" thread, it was to make a point on their horrible marketing and the fact that the spotlight has been taken away from them just like with the Bolt.

 

[GoTslaGo]

^^^
How come I don't think that is their intent with this advertising campaign...

Referring to deonb

 

[bhzmark]

The marketing makes perfect sense. You shouldn't have to wait 2 years to get your affordable BEV. You can get it now.

 

[Bangor Bob]

The marketing makes perfect sense. You shouldn't have to wait 2 years to get your affordable BEV. You can get it now.

Although it rather misses the point on addressing "You shouldn't have to wait 2 years to get a great, attractive EV." Unfortunately, unless you happen to have $70k at hand, we still do...

 

[bhzmark]

Although it rather misses the point on addressing "You shouldn't have to wait 2 years to get a great, attractive EV." Unfortunately, unless you happen to have $70k at hand, we still do...

It nails the point on getting an affordable (i.e., <70k) car now. Actually since 2010.

 

[dhrivnak]

I do know a number of Leaf owners that can match the EPA mileage so 100+ miles is easily achievable in the new 30KWh Leaf. Most have the older and smaller 24 KWh battery and that model is in the 75 mile range.

And I REALLY hope Tesla proves me wrong here but they have yet to deliver a car at the promised price at the promised time. The $90K Roadster became $110K and $49.9K Model S has realistically become $70K. Yes I know the lower priced 40KWh battery did not sell well. I do not fault Tesla as they are doing what most thought was impossible.