Nissan wants Tesla Model 3 reservation holders to buy LEAFs, launches new ad campaign

[swaltner]

Having the Leaf as a stopgap until the Model 3 was released was the plan all along back in July 2013 by purchasing a Leaf SV. I just hoped to have the Model 3 in the driveway by now. I had considered a lease on the Leaf because the Model 3 was supposed to be out by this time, but am happy that I bought it outright now. It's been a great starter EV while waiting for the Model 3 to come to market.

Even when my Model 3 reservation gets converted to a real vehicle in the garage, I've considered keeping the Leaf for EVangelizing purposes. Over the last 3 years, I've had many people ask about the specifics on driving an EV. Having a "spare" EV that I could loan to friends and family would be fun. Loan them the Leaf, so they could experience EV driving for a week or more to see that it really is more convenient. Obviously, I'd need to filter this for people that would actually be able to do their normal driving with the remaining battery capacity on the Leaf, but several friends have commutes that would fit the bill. The biggest problem for this scheme would be that not everyone has a 240V outlet already installed in their garage.

 

[gregincal]

nonetheless you rated my comments as a dislike. I've owned a leaf, and in optimum weather conditions there is no way your leaf will be able to do a 90 mile commute without getting a charge at some point, excepting if you do the drive at 40 mph

But the only way to compare cars is EPA mileage. The EPA test does a wide variety of driving and while it obviously doesn't completely match real world conditions and most people won't get that, it's still a useful comparison. But be clear, if for you a 30kWh Leaf with a 107 mile EPA range will only go 70 miles, then the Model 3 will at best be a 150 mile car for you (and probably less).

For me the 24kWh Leaf didn't have quite enough range, but the 30kWh would have. However, the performance and handling isn't enough for me (in addition to the style).

 

[kort677]

But the only way to compare cars is EPA mileage.

I disagree, at this point in the cycle of the LEAF there is enough real usage data available. IMHO the EPA ratings are quite vague and the tests are done in tightly controlled environments that don't always reflect the real world numbers achieved. the epa numbers are useful as a guide or to compare cars but since there are so few EVs there aren't many cars to compare to.

 

[SageBrush]

the EPA ... tests are done in tightly controlled environments that don't always reflect the real world numbers achieved

I am proof of that. I don't think I've ever gotten EPA, even in winter. Nice weather driving is about 20-25% over EPA. This has been true for every car I have owned.

Some people are surprised by the results, but it is not magic and it is not driving 40 mph. I drive low 60s mph on highways most of the time, and I anticipate traffic and stop-lights in non-highway driving. Now, before you point out that the EPA highway test is at about those speeds, I'll remind you that accessories are also tested and a fudge factor is applied to their result to bring the number down to something that the average American driver can call "like me." To see the unadorned EPA results look at the CAFE numbers. IIRC for the Prius it is in the high 60s MPG.

The sticker EPA is an exercise in 'no driver left (too far) behind.'

 

[Mr X]

But then I have to settle for an absolutely hideous butt ugly WTF looking sheet of metal with wheels.


No thanks. I'll wait for a car that I wont feel embarrassed driving around in.

 

[cwerdna]

I disagree, at this point in the cycle of the LEAF there is enough real usage data available. IMHO the EPA ratings are quite vague and the tests are done in tightly controlled environments that don't always reflect the real world numbers achieved.

They're not that vague. I posted pointers at Car and Driver: The Truth About EPA City / Highway MPG Estimates WAY before the Model S existed. From what I understand, for EVs, they just keep running the respective cycles repeatedly until the car's dead.

I don't know what you mean by "real world". Everyone has their own driving that is their "real world". Some people will drive very inefficiently (e.g. fast, running the heater and/or HVAC, underinflated tires, stomping on the brakes triggering friction brakes, riding the brakes, brakes unnecessarily, etc.) and call it quits way too early, leaving a lot of unused capacity on the table and thus achieve bad range. I sometimes witness ICEVs accelerating or even pass me (and continue) w/their brake lights on. I wonder how many of these are electrical problems w/their car vs. people riding the brakes (esp. w/their left foot).

People drive VERY fast on highways in the Los Angeles area vs. the lower speed limits and lots of slow drivers in the Seattle area. I've lived in both.

Example: In LA, when traffic's moving, it's not abnormal to go 70+ mph in 55 zone in the middle or cloesr to the right lane and having people constantly pass you on both sides, including nuts that blow by you.

In the Seattle area, speed limits might be 60 mph, yet when it's clear in the afternoon w/dry pavement, they'll be hogs that tie up the fast lane going below 60 for no reason w/nobody in front of them and plenty blockers in the other lanes. If you drive like you do in LA, you WILL stand out and likely get pulled over.

Others drive efficiently and/or in more ideal climates or hypermile, will let the battery run lower and will achieve great numbers. The known range record of a 24 kWh Leaf is 186.4 miles (100 Mile Club, 200 km, 300 km, 200 Mile Club (24kWh LEAF) - My Nissan Leaf Forum).

the epa numbers are useful as a guide or to compare cars but since there are so few EVs there aren't many cars to compare to.

I count 12 currently sold or leased as new pure BEVs at March 2016 Dashboard - HybridCars.com under Battery Electric section. And, there have been so many variants of Model S you can select at Compare Cars Side-by-Side. if I select 2015 Model S, I get 8 variants. For '16, I see 10.

 

[brianman]

I just hoped to have the Model 3 in the driveway by now.

I'm baffled how you came to this expectation.