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Nitrogen ?
- Thread starter LS..
- Start date
Interesting. We kept a Nitrogen tank in out hangar and used to top off our plane's tires. But, I never gave it any thought to why. The fire scenario makes sense since even today you can literally melt the tires by locking them up on an abort takeoff or emergency landing/overshoot.
Tires catching fire is still something they have to deal with heavy aircraft. See this video on an aborted take off test and watch how long it takes for things to go really bad. V1 is the speed were they cut the power and slam on the brakes.
gnuarm
Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
The heat generation/pressure stabilization thing is garbage tech talk. There is no significant difference in any gas in terms of how much pressure changes when the temperature changes. PV = nRT is the ideal gas law. Notice there is no indication of what gas is involved, only the quantity (n), the temperature (T), the volume (V), the pressure (P) and a single constant (R). Water vapor is no different than oxygen or nitrogen in this regard. Having liquid water is a different matter since the volume of the liquid is essentially constant but different amounts of water will be in liquid and gaseous states with different temperatures.
Water may have an impact on tire life, but I expect if you do any reasonable amount of driving you will find the tires wear out long before they are damaged by water vapor.
gnuarm
Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
Inflategate was yet another example of how a lack of understanding of simple physics can lead you astray. That was a matter of the difference in temperature between the locker room where they inflated and measured the footballs and the playing field where they said the balls were under-inflated. No one was being evil, but everyone involved was being a bit ignorant of physics. I don't think they ever figured it out and the Patriots were reprimanded.
BTW, I never said pressure wouldn't change. I said it doesn't depend in any significant way on *which* gas you are talking about given the gasses in question. The ideal gas law predicts pretty accurately the pressure in your tires and in a football and it doesn't depend on the gas used.
BTW, I never said pressure wouldn't change. I said it doesn't depend in any significant way on *which* gas you are talking about given the gasses in question. The ideal gas law predicts pretty accurately the pressure in your tires and in a football and it doesn't depend on the gas used.
Gurnam is correct:
1. Nitrogen offers no benefits for on-road driving.
2. Nitrogen offers benefits to aircraft, subways, and underground mine applications. These benefits are related to fires, not pressure.
3. Racers use nitrogen either because there is no electricity in the pits, or they need a guaranteed dry gas supply to fine tune suspension. Nitrogen is as safe and cheap as anything else they could use.
4. Nitrogen may actually be detrimental to on-road vehicles because it expands slower than air because nitrogen is perfectly dry. This means the tire with nitrogen is slower to reach thermal equilibrium and will reach higher temperatures. Heat is what kills tires.
1. Nitrogen offers no benefits for on-road driving.
2. Nitrogen offers benefits to aircraft, subways, and underground mine applications. These benefits are related to fires, not pressure.
3. Racers use nitrogen either because there is no electricity in the pits, or they need a guaranteed dry gas supply to fine tune suspension. Nitrogen is as safe and cheap as anything else they could use.
4. Nitrogen may actually be detrimental to on-road vehicles because it expands slower than air because nitrogen is perfectly dry. This means the tire with nitrogen is slower to reach thermal equilibrium and will reach higher temperatures. Heat is what kills tires.
No he is not and you are not either, race cars have been using it for years because pure nitrogen stabilize the pressure change as the tires heat up and down.
When was the last time you were inside the pits? They have 14-50 and 110 hook ups in most of them, don’t claim something you don’t know about.
The whole thing with the football was the claim of deflated footballs, not inflated. They measured the football in the cold vs room temperature. They are too dumb to realize pressure drops when it is cold, it has nothing to do with someone deflating football
When was the last time you were inside the pits? They have 14-50 and 110 hook ups in most of them, don’t claim something you don’t know about.
The whole thing with the football was the claim of deflated footballs, not inflated. They measured the football in the cold vs room temperature. They are too dumb to realize pressure drops when it is cold, it has nothing to do with someone deflating football
https://www.google.com/amp/s/jalopnik.com/heres-the-deal-with-nitrogen-filled-tires-1795659391/amp
Nitrogen is nice for people in cold weather because you don’t have to add air to the car during a cold spell and you don’t have to deal with the annoying tpms lights. For people who race, temperature changes won’t change the pressure quite as much, especially as you heat the tires up.
The rest of the benefits they claim such as lower resistance are probably not real or at least it is immaterial.
Nitrogen is nice for people in cold weather because you don’t have to add air to the car during a cold spell and you don’t have to deal with the annoying tpms lights. For people who race, temperature changes won’t change the pressure quite as much, especially as you heat the tires up.
The rest of the benefits they claim such as lower resistance are probably not real or at least it is immaterial.
I've used it on a number of cars in the past... Since we have wide temperature changes (even in the same day), the Nitrogen kept tire pressure equal at all times.
I have just air in my Tesla tires because the Service Center doesn't do nitrogen and they end up doing my tire work.... else I would for the above reason.
(ahh just saw mattack400's post.... )
-m
I have just air in my Tesla tires because the Service Center doesn't do nitrogen and they end up doing my tire work.... else I would for the above reason.
(ahh just saw mattack400's post.... )
-m
Yes the other gasses expand and contact with temperature enough to make a difference.
Here's some descriptions of it:
UCSB Science Line
Pure nitrogen has very little change when temperatures change.
-m
Here's some descriptions of it:
UCSB Science Line
Pure nitrogen has very little change when temperatures change.
-m
Can one of you that knows more about gas laws than I comment on dryness of air that is compressed to 100psi into a tank then released to 50psi in a tire?
Presuming full saturation at 100psi to the point of falling out of suspension in the tank.
I have a crappy 30gallon tank Craftsman compressor I use, I think water is a bigger issue with the 12volt emergency pumps and gas station pumps with no tank for water to separate onto.
It stikes many here may not have experience with air compressors, compressing air packs the molecules more tightly and basically squeezes water out leaving liquid water in the bottom of the tank. Without a tank it gets pumped into the tire.
Presuming full saturation at 100psi to the point of falling out of suspension in the tank.
I have a crappy 30gallon tank Craftsman compressor I use, I think water is a bigger issue with the 12volt emergency pumps and gas station pumps with no tank for water to separate onto.
It stikes many here may not have experience with air compressors, compressing air packs the molecules more tightly and basically squeezes water out leaving liquid water in the bottom of the tank. Without a tank it gets pumped into the tire.
If you don't want to believe it, then don't. It's that simple.
Nitrogen vs Air In Tires - Why Nitrogen in Tires
Nitrogen vs Air In Tires - Why Nitrogen in Tires
I worked in F1 racing for two decades. We routinely used Nitrogen OR dry air compressors to fill the tyres. We also tested every gas you can imagine to see if there was any advantage (however small) to be found and there wasn't. After a series of track tests we thought maybe CO2 was maybe fractionally better (it was far from conclusive) so we filled the tyres with that for a while because we could, but it was a pain to get hold of reliable bottle supplies around the world, so we soon reverted back to the standard compressors used by Michelin and Bridgestone at the time. As others have said, moisture is the real enemy here, not the actual gas.
On a road car this is all a complete and utter waste of time and money. Just fill your tyres with air and totally forget about it! Check your cold pressures regularly and top up as and when required. By all means fill with Nitrogen if its FOC and convenient, but you will never be able to justify actually paying for it.
On a road car this is all a complete and utter waste of time and money. Just fill your tyres with air and totally forget about it! Check your cold pressures regularly and top up as and when required. By all means fill with Nitrogen if its FOC and convenient, but you will never be able to justify actually paying for it.
