All discussion of Nikola Motors

[RubberToe]

What's the best way to profit on a drop in NKLA?

RT

 

[vikings123]

What's the best way to profit on a drop in NKLA?

RT

Right now puts are very expensive. The borrowing fee for the common stock is very high too if you are thinking about shorting shares. Honestly you are better off waiting for more shares liquidity before you either short or buy puts.

The answer just might be investing more in TSLA. When the market realizes NKLA's master plan is a whole lot of prototypes, CGI renderings and a lot of marketing BS I expect the money to move to TSLA.

 

[ammulder]

I find this level of analysis amusing, they have predict future revenue stream evaluated the competition, looked at demand, margins, overheads etc, instead it is a good buy because the price is low.

lol, they be the ones buyin' Hertz...

 

[renim]

1/2 of NKLA vehicles will probably be BEV, another 1/4 HFC and final quarter H2-PHEV.

As long as nkla avoids the mindset of toyota, honda and hyundai (which was do anything except BEV) then NKLA has a chance.

While i doubt there is much cross ownership between NKLA and TSLA, i suspect that nkla shorts and tsla shorts have a lot of common ownership.

 

[willow_hiller]

There is a use case. Long distance trucking.

Sorry for the cross-thread reply, but this was getting OT in the main thread.

I don't think FCEV is even practical for long distance trucking. Nikola is targeting a range of 500 to 750 miles for their hydrogen semi: Nikola releases semi-trucks Two and Tre, maps out hydrogen network

And it's not instant to fuel either. 15-20 minutes to pump the pressurized tanks.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

1/2 of NKLA vehicles will probably be BEV, another 1/4 HFC and final quarter H2-PHEV.

As long as nkla avoids the mindset of toyota, honda and hyundai (which was do anything except BEV) then NKLA has a chance.

While i doubt there is much cross ownership between NKLA and TSLA, i suspect that nkla shorts and tsla shorts have a lot of common ownership.

Except that they're building BEV trucks only because they couldn't make their core product work...and literally everyone has access to the same BEV components...but most legacy manufacturers are better situated to exploit them.

I do not understand this idea of giving Nikola a chance because they're now doing what everyone else (Daimler, BYD, Volvo, Tesla) is doing.

 

[renim]

Volume on BEV, profit on H2.

A truck is limited by either cargo volume, cargo weight or neither (just timing)

BEV will always win on volume, but loads which are both
1) weight limited
2) long distance
Are difficult if not impossible for BEVs (absent driverless trucks)

There will be a cross over distance, beyond which each additional kg of battery reduces payload by same kilogram. That is where a cost optimised H2 can profitably operate, if it competitive versus diesel.

So a company designing both BEV and HFC and H-Phev should in theory be able to offer an optimal solution for each user.

What i mean is this, there is a legal limit on vehicle weight due to road damage. Above a certain payweight/range combination there is a natural duty for hydrogen trucks, that payweight/range will not exist in all countries, some are too small.

 

[renim]

A more bizarre vehicle, renault kangoo ZE as BEV or H2-EREV

https://media.renault.ch/__/132199.a0af9887.dl

Basically renault offers it BEV with an additional 5kw H2 fuel cell + h2 tank to double (350 bar) or triple (700bar) its range.

Meanwhile the rest of the world would just double or triple the battery pack.....but its an example of the principle.

 

[vikings123]

I mean you cannot be serious with this stuff. He is running out of ideas to pump. lol

 

[Doggydogworld]

They should also team up with Wirecard for payments.

 

[EVortex]

Or maybe partner up with someone who can actually build something instead of just talking about it.

 

[ammulder]

Or maybe partner up with someone who can actually build something instead of just talking about it.

Uhh... someone who can actually build something, like, say, Iveco? Oh, wait...

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Uhh... someone who can actually build something, like, say, Iveco? Oh, wait...

As far as I know, Iveco isn't interested in building the Badger...

Honestly, not sure how you build a vehicle from a HS design course render...but I guess we'll find out.

 

[ammulder]

As far as I know, Iveco isn't interested in building the Badger...

True, I wasn't clear that you were talking about the Badger. Supposedly they're cutting a deal with an OEM to build, sell, and service the Badger. Certainly all the OEMs have the capacity.

It's not the actual manufacturing that I doubt. It's whether the design is finalized enough to actually manufacture in volume, and whether the business model with all this partnership & outsourcing is going to allow them to make a decent margin without setting sky-high prices.

Also, since the plan is to build Hydrogen stations only on the Semi routes they've pre-sold, I'm not clear why anybody would buy a fuel-cell Badger. Unless they really have a die-hard wish to vacation between the Anheuser-Busch factories and warehouses...?

 

[GSP]

As a lease owner of a FCEV for last 2yr 4months, I can categorically tell you that anyone who thinks hydrogen is a viable fuel alternative for land transport is either completely deluded or just trying to pull a fast one on you. We have a leased Honda Clarity FCEV - it is a 3-year lease, a very sweet deal offered by Honda. We knew while leasing it that we are early adaptors, and were willing to accept some inconveniences. Currently, we are counting down days to when we can finally give it back.

There are lots of problems with hydrogen, it is nothing like pumping regular gas. We have 5 hydrogen gas stations accessible to us between our jobs and residence - even then there were times when we would be struggling to get consistent supply. Now of course, thanks to WFH, last 3 months the car is just sitting in the garage while we continue to pay the lease.

The actual pumping of hydrogen into the car may take only 5 minutes, but it is problem if cars are filled back to back as the gas has to be pressurized and chilled - so we learnt quickly that if there were more than 2 cars in line ahead of us at the filling station, you might as well leave because the pump goes offline for 10-15 minutes after 2-3 cars are filled. Even in the dry weather of southern California, the pump nozzles ice up due to the cooling - sometimes it will get stuck due to the ice. We keep a towel in the car to wipe off the condensation/ice and to hold the freezing nozzles. To make matters more complicated, the nozzle locking mechanisms at each pump is slightly different. The nozzle has to be locked in position while pumping due to the high pressure gas, the instructions for locking and unlocking are usually posted on the pump. But invariably there are folks who don't check, and some of the pumps would keep breaking down! Couple of times, when we saw the car ahead of us struggling with the nozzle, my husband will go and help the person.

I could go on and on, clearly not a fan of the technology!

Thanks for posting your real world experience with a fuel cell vehicle. I did have a couple of questions about this part:

“Now of course, thanks to WFH, last 3 months the car is just sitting in the garage while we continue to pay the lease.”

1) what is “WFH?”
2) why is your car just sitting in the garage?

Thanks,

GSP

 

[ggr]

Thanks for posting your real world experience with a fuel cell vehicle. I did have a couple of questions about this part:

“Now of course, thanks to WFH, last 3 months the car is just sitting in the garage while we continue to pay the lease.”

1) what is “WFH?”
2) why is your car just sitting in the garage?

Thanks,

GSP

Working From Home. That's why.

 

[EV forever]

Thanks for posting your real world experience with a fuel cell vehicle. I did have a couple of questions about this part:

“Now of course, thanks to WFH, last 3 months the car is just sitting in the garage while we continue to pay the lease.”

1) what is “WFH?”
2) why is your car just sitting in the garage?

Thanks,

GSP

Thanks @ggr . Yes, it is WFH for the last 3.5 months - with less than 50 miles total driven during this time.

I understand that there is noting to be done about the lease - everyone is in the same boat. It is just that it is one additional annoyance in a long list of complaints about the car as well as the technology and the way Honda and the local dealer has handled things so far. It also didn't help the Clarity that we got our Tesla 2 months after. The way the two companies have handled everything is a night and day difference.

In addition to the fueling issues I listed before - other issues to mention

• 3 major recalls to date - the third one required a complete replacement of the fuel cell stack. Neither Honda nor the dealer informed us about the third recall - one fine day the car gave a emergency error saying "low power, requires immediate maintenance" and slowed down on the freeway. Took the car immediately to the dealer, who then informs us of the recall. They didn't have the part anyways, so took 4 weeks to fix during which we had a rental paid for by Honda.
• There are a ton of software glitches - for e.g. last weekend, we took the car out first time in a few weeks. Well, none of our phones would connect via bluetooth. We had to delete the phones and pair them again. Now the phones are connected, but the car will not display any caller history or the name of the song that is being played. Minor annoyance maybe. But this has happened before, when we contacted the dealer - we were told that the car needed a software upgrade for $185. Obviously, no OTA means we have to take the car in for the upgrade.
• There are other errors that show up from time to time, each time the answer is 'software upgrade'. Well we are not paying for any software upgrade for a leased car, so we just ignore it.
• The screen and rearview camera is pathetically bad (maybe because we keep comparing to Tesla). At night if it is raining you might as well be blind while backing up.
• We keep getting random offers from Honda about promotions related to electric car - even though we don't have an electric Clarity. We also get maintenance messages on the display that are clearly meant for a gas car - it asked for some sort of a transmission check at 2 years! These are not really annoyances, they are just funny and tell you the level of commitment these companies have for the technology.

We have another 8 months left on the lease - we intent to order the Model Y in exactly 6 months from now to replace this car.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

Thanks @ggr . Yes, it is WFH for the last 3.5 months - with less than 50 miles total driven during this time.

I understand that there is noting to be done about the lease - everyone is in the same boat. It is just that it is one additional annoyance in a long list of complaints about the car as well as the technology and the way Honda and the local dealer has handled things so far. It also didn't help the Clarity that we got our Tesla 2 months after. The way the two companies have handled everything is a night and day difference.

In addition to the fueling issues I listed before - other issues to mention

• 3 major recalls to date - the third one required a complete replacement of the fuel cell stack. Neither Honda nor the dealer informed us about the third recall - one fine day the car gave a emergency error saying "low power, requires immediate maintenance" and slowed down on the freeway. Took the car immediately to the dealer, who then informs us of the recall. They didn't have the part anyways, so took 4 weeks to fix during which we had a rental paid for by Honda.
• There are a ton of software glitches - for e.g. last weekend, we took the car out first time in a few weeks. Well, none of our phones would connect via bluetooth. We had to delete the phones and pair them again. Now the phones are connected, but the car will not display any caller history or the name of the song that is being played. Minor annoyance maybe. But this has happened before, when we contacted the dealer - we were told that the car needed a software upgrade for $185. Obviously, no OTA means we have to take the car in for the upgrade.
• There are other errors that show up from time to time, each time the answer is 'software upgrade'. Well we are not paying for any software upgrade for a leased car, so we just ignore it.
• The screen and rearview camera is pathetically bad (maybe because we keep comparing to Tesla). At night if it is raining you might as well be blind while backing up.
• We keep getting random offers from Honda about promotions related to electric car - even though we don't have an electric Clarity. We also get maintenance messages on the display that are clearly meant for a gas car - it asked for some sort of a transmission check at 2 years! These are not really annoyances, they are just funny and tell you the level of commitment these companies have for the technology.

We have another 8 months left on the lease - we intent to order the Model Y in exactly 6 months from now to replace this car.

Have you considered swapalease.com or shift.com to be rid of it sooner?

 

[Todd Burch]

As a lease owner of a FCEV for last 2yr 4months, I can categorically tell you that anyone who thinks hydrogen is a viable fuel alternative for land transport is either completely deluded or just trying to pull a fast one on you. We have a leased Honda Clarity FCEV - it is a 3-year lease, a very sweet deal offered by Honda. We knew while leasing it that we are early adaptors, and were willing to accept some inconveniences.

Early adaptors indeed, because it sounds like Honda shoved something right into your receptacle, so to speak!

 

[elasalle]

lol NKLAQ thread ...
Looks like NKLA has finished running (stagnant last 5 days) ...