No AWD for Model 3 until next year confirmed

[daniel]

Less than 1% of the population is interested in changing tires/wheels twice a year. I have, but most won't.

Judging by the number of people running studded tires in an area where it snows every third year, I think your estimate is a bit low. Of course, I believe many of them do it because noise from the studded tires remind them of the baseball cards they stuck in their bike's spokes so many years ago. Four more days.

This reminds me of one of the reasons I want my Model 3: The Roadster is too small to carry tires. Twice a year I have to load my tires into the Prius and drive them to the tire shop. Then I drive home and get into the Roadster and drive it to the tire shop to have the tires switched. Then I drive home and get back into the Prius and drive back to the tire shop to load up and haul home the off-season tires. The Model 3 will be able to carry its spare tires to the tire shop to be switched out.

I need to do this soon. I was hoping this would be the last time I'd have to do it. But now it looks as though I'll have to do it twice more after this. Grump!

At least it's an excuse to pig out on popcorn, which the tire shop gives away free for the several hours I have to wait there, since they don't take reservations. It's a crapshoot how many people will be ahead of me, and therefore how long I'll have to wait. When I lived in Fargo the tire shop would store my off-season tires. But the tire shop here does not do that.

 

[RubberToe]

... I had to throw you a disagree on this.

Whilst past performance is not a perfect indicator, it is statistically more accurate than having zero historical data. (Hint: Bookies are masters of statistics, and that's why favourites are favourites, which is why ultimately the bookies win)

I see your point...

But the "bookies" who were selling January 2014 TSLA $40 calls for $3.20 each back in September 2012 didn't fare so well when TSLA hit $190 in September 2016, and those $3.20 call options were each worth $160. Even the "smart money" gets it wrong sometimes.

To get back somewhat on topic, I think a lot of people will be very surprised when Tesla starts delivering the Model 3 in July. Conventional wisdom was that they would trickle a few out, and the real ramp wouldn't start until late in the year or early 2018. Elon is determined to get those Model 3's on the road, in quantity, ASAP.

RT

 

[internalaudit]

In which states is AWD almost a must have anyway? Is it more when climbing up hills / mountains in the winter time?

As much as I'd love AWD, roads are quite flat here in Toronto, Ontario, Canada and if job situation changes and I will have to drive instead of take the train, then I may have to go for RWD. The government incentive may also disappear by June 2018 and I doubt AWD's will be shipping to Toronto before then.

 

[tebling]

This reminds me of one of the reasons I want my Model 3: The Roadster is too small to carry tires. Twice a year I have to load my tires into the Prius and drive them to the tire shop.

Buy black steelies at $50 a wheel for your winter tires? That's what I do, so I can change them myself. I find it to be less of a hassle than taking them to a tire shop, and it protects my summer wheels from winter nastiness.

I think they actually look kind of cool as well.

 

[eloder]

I'm kind of chuckling over the posts stating that they'll be canceling Model 3 reservations.

What are you going to get instead? One of the many other competing cars out there? A Bolt that will forever be FWD and with no road trip capabilities? One of the other vaporware cars that may be arriving in 2019 or beyond? An ICE that is probably 5-7 years away from a tremendously huge drop in resale value with the EV revolution soon to reach cost parity?

I was hoping for AWD myself (waited in line for six hours prior to opening, all that fun stuff), but this won't change anything. I'll probably buy RWD because I really want my Tesla ASAP, but a RWD Tesla will still fare much better in snow than most AWD ICEs out there. (My Leaf even does pretty amazing in snow in all-season tires running FWD--electric traction control is amazing).

 

[oneday]

Honestly I'm stoked they're not offering RWD right away. Moves me up in line!!!! I would have waited in line but since I was traveling in Costa Rica on reveal day I had to wait until online orders opened.

Sure, AWD would have been a sure pick for me, hearing from RWD S owners, I think I'll be happy!

 

[Jurnimon]

Meh. I've lived in New England all my life and never had fwd/awd. Currently have S rwd and it's a champ in the snow.

I helped another owner push a Model S RWD earlier in Massachusetts this year that got stuck on about a 1/2 of snow in a very tiny incline. Sure you can get away with a RWD MS in cold/snowy climates when the road is flat. I drove an original MS 60 in Denver, Colorado in a flash 5" snowstorm on flat roads. I was crushing AWD SUV's around me. Having the motor right in the axle is a great place to put the weight and adds to traction on a flat surface. On a incline, that weight in the rear hurts traction and tire traction, momentum matters more.

AWD is a safer play and adds so many more advantages (increased range, better performance with high torque motors)

Perhaps this has been stated on this thread. The $7,500 credit matters quite a bit converting the average ICE vehicle owner. Getting a Model 3 w/ AWD lower spec'd would probably be around $40k-$45k. With that full $7,500 credit and the cost savings on energy over gasoline, the cost of that Model 3 would rival the total cost of a strongly optioned Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Subaru Legacy or pick your other non luxury mid-sized sedan. I hope Tesla can maximize their units delivered (and revenue) while maximizing the number of customers that can receive that max credit.

 

[garsh]

I helped another owner push a Model S RWD earlier in Massachusetts this year that got stuck on about a 1/2 of snow in a very tiny incline.

Owners of RWD vehicles should invest in snow tires.

 

[WarpedOne]

All owner driving in freezing conditions should invest in snow tires.
AWD is only good for accelerating, it sucks for braking.

 

[daniel]

Buy black steelies at $50 a wheel for your winter tires? That's what I do, so I can change them myself. I find it to be less of a hassle than taking them to a tire shop, and it protects my summer wheels from winter nastiness.

I think they actually look kind of cool as well.

I considered this when I first got the Roadster. I decided that changing my own wheels was about 4 times as much work as taking my tires to the tire store, and given my poor abilities would take me almost as long as waiting for the store to do it and I'd probably torque the lug nuts wrong. The last time I got a flat I couldn't even get the wheel off and had to get someone else to change it.

 

[brianman]

When the Model S came out the dual motor was available sooner then the performance option.

Incorrect.

 

[garsh]

The last time I got a flat I couldn't even get the wheel off and had to get someone else to change it.

That's because the grease monkeys at your favorite "tire store" severely over-tightened the lug nuts. This is why I change my own winter/summer wheels, and why I hate having to take my car somewhere for inspections. Too many mechanics just put the wheels back on using an impact wrench set to "maximum".

Just buy a cheap torque wrench (that's the one I own), do it yourself, and you'll know it's been done correctly. And then you *will* be able to get the wheel off the next time you get a flat.

 

[McRat]

I considered this when I first got the Roadster. I decided that changing my own wheels was about 4 times as much work as taking my tires to the tire store, and given my poor abilities would take me almost as long as waiting for the store to do it and I'd probably torque the lug nuts wrong. The last time I got a flat I couldn't even get the wheel off and had to get someone else to change it.

I do most my own work ONLY because I fear incompetence. After I had a vehicle damaged from being lifted incorrectly (a Ford Van? OMG! The world's easiest vehicle to lift. It has a FRAME!!! They lifted it by the body sheet metal), and having another strip out and snap a stud on a new car, and another forget to tighten one wheel, I gave up.

Using the right procedure in conjunction with the right tools, I do vehicle over 7000lb in about 30 minutes, but light cars, like Vettes, I do in under 10 minutes in the pits at the track solo. Sure, I'm not 20 anymore, and have a hip replacement, other leg mangled, back trouble, etc. But with the right tools it's not about physical strength.

Case in point, my wife also changes tires at the track, and my kids started helping at 6 years old.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I need some specs.

What is the "REAL" difference in power in the M3 between RWD and AWD. Since this is an entirely different build....please no references to the MS and MX.

Oh.... that's right - there are no specs yet.

 

[smac]

I considered this when I first got the Roadster. I decided that changing my own wheels was about 4 times as much work as taking my tires to the tire store, and given my poor abilities would take me almost as long as waiting for the store to do it and I'd probably torque the lug nuts wrong. The last time I got a flat I couldn't even get the wheel off and had to get someone else to change it.

@daniel sorry to go off topic, but does the Roadster have the same lifting concerns as the Elise?

i.e. to correctly use a two post lift on the car you are supposed to remove the rear undertray, and use a set "hidden"of jacking points there. The ones on the sills are designed to lift the whole side of the car up at once and are therefore at c50% weight distribution point, so it doesn't take much for the car to pivot on this point. This is what can happen:

Needless to say I am very careful to make sure I take my Exige somewhere they know what they are doing (or instruct them beforehand) even if it's just for a tire swap

 

[WarpedOne]

What is the "REAL" difference in power in the M3 between RWD and AWD.

I'd guess it will be similar as with Model S.
RWD will see power drop at higher speeds, D model wont have that. I.e. M3S will be motor-power-limited, M3D will be battery-power-limited.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I'd guess it will be similar as with Model S.
RWD will see power drop at higher speeds, D model wont have that. I.e. M3S will be motor-power-limited, M3D will be battery-power-limited.

I tried to ask nicely for real numbers without speculation - and to not use the MS and MX for examples. You seem to have accomplished everything I wasn't looking for. lol

I'm trying to make a point that we just don't have enough REAL information.

 

[McRat]

I need some specs.

What is the "REAL" difference in power in the M3 between RWD and AWD. Since this is an entirely different build....please no references to the MS and MX.

Oh.... that's right - there are no specs yet.

The King of the kW per kWh worth of battery in a street car is the custom electric Vette that just went 209mph on 45kWh. 209 is going to need roughly 700hp up top.

So RWD will be too fast.

 

[PJFW8]

That's because the grease monkeys at your favorite "tire store" severely over-tightened the lug nuts. This is why I change my own winter/summer wheels, and why I hate having to take my car somewhere for inspections. Too many mechanics just put the wheels back on using an impact wrench set to "maximum".

Just buy a cheap torque wrench (that's the one I own), do it yourself, and you'll know it's been done correctly. And then you *will* be able to get the wheel off the next time you get a flat.

I agree. A few tools (dare I say Harbor Freight) and even an old guy like me can do it in less than an hour.

 

[WarpedOne]

Garlan Garner:

I tried to ask nicely for real numbers without speculation - and to not use the MS and MX for examples. You seem to have accomplished everything I wasn't looking for. lol

And you haven't understood what I had written.

Tesla has a 300kW inverter prepared for M3. That is enough to feed one 300kW motor. Power output of this one 300kW will start to drop at HW speeds. It will be 300kW only in some narrow speed window (say between 40 and 70 mph, depending on gearing).
Not because Model S saw the same thing but because physics.
You need much more powerfull motors and inverters to be consume maximum battery power (~350 kW) at max speed. M3D will be able to do it with two inverters and motors (even if they are weaker by themselves)

There will be same old sh*tstorm of accusations how tesla is again lying about the maximum power output, combined motor power is a lie, etc.

Reality is people do not understand anything, idiocracy is already here.