Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

No AWD for Model 3 until next year confirmed

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Good luck with that! I predict that there will be nothing more than Elon's vague tweets regarding anticipated time line. The design studio will say something like "Your configuration choice is not yet available. When we are ready to build your car you will be notified."
I hope that that isn't the case. If it is then that means that everyone that was invited to configure but couldn't because their choices weren't available will be sitting there waiting. Then it just becomes a race to see who can configure and confirm the fastest potentially eliminating any advantage that anyone had for being an owner or for waiting in line. Unless they factor that into the production after a certain point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: internalaudit
I hope that that isn't the case. If it is then that means that everyone that was invited to configure but couldn't because their choices weren't available will be sitting there waiting. Then it just becomes a race to see who can configure and confirm the fastest potentially eliminating any advantage that anyone had for being an owner or for waiting in line. Unless they factor that into the production after a certain point.

No, that's not what will happen. You will get to configure your car, and you will have your place in line, honored as soon as your configuration becomes available.*

* This is my speculation. I have no inside information. My speculation is worth as much as any other speculation, which is to say nothing at all. Still, it makes sense that they will honor the reservation order, with the proviso that if you request a configuration that's not yet available, or if they are not yet shipping to your location, your order will go on hold until it is and they are.
 
For the record I have pre-ordered an IPace. (And this announcement was the final straw)

Will be interesting to see if it beats the P + AWD Model 3 to market. My pre-order is putting my money where my mouth is, because at least in RHD I believe it will.

Keeping my Model S for longer journeys will depend upon the state of 3rd party charging networks at the time. (Though I highly doubt anyone will reach the gold standard of the SpC network anytime soon). Even this is somewhat moot given my usage pattern, for the 1% of time I go out of battery range, I could suffer one of my ICE's.


(BTW I freely admit I'm not the target audience of the M3 as a sole/primary vehicle. One does have to wonder how many other P+AWD res holders are in my position though)
 
Last edited:
For the record I have pre-ordered an IPace. (And this announcement was the final straw)

Will be interesting to see if it beats the P + AWD Model 3 to market. My pre-order is putting my money where my mouth is, because at least in RHD I believe it will.

Keeping my Model S for longer journeys will depend upon the state of 3rd party charging networks at the time. (Though I highly doubt anyone will reach the gold standard of the SpC network anytime soon). Even this is somewhat moot given my usage pattern, for the 1% of time I go out of battery range, I could suffer one of my ICE's.


(BTW I freely admit I'm not the target audience of the M3 as a sole/primary vehicle. One does have to wonder how many other P+AWD res holders are in my position though)

When I was young (a looooong time ago) Jaguar had a reputation for spending more time in the shop being repaired, than on the road being driven. A cousin of mine had one and hated it for this reason. Has this changed since then?
 
When I was young (a looooong time ago) Jaguar had a reputation for spending more time in the shop being repaired, than on the road being driven. A cousin of mine had one and hated it for this reason. Has this changed since then?
They were a lot better when Ford came in and started making them "grow up". Since ownership by Tata they have continued to improve.

I had a chance to take a long trip in an F-Pace recently, and it certainly felt well screwed together. The friend who owned it was over the moon with it (admittedly it was only a few months old.)

Saying that it is probably a bit moot, as the IPace manufacture is being subcontracted out to Magna (who are also building the current gen BMW 5 series).

I don't think the IPace will be a big competitor to the 3 (well Y really ), as it won't be being built in the volume, is likely priced at $80k+ and doesn't have a SpC network. For a second car in the garage of a Model S owner though, esp. one who had considered a top of the line AWD + P car, it might be worth a look.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: internalaudit
Seeing how Tesla seems to be simplifying Model 3 step by step, what will they do with motors?
It would not surprise me if they made the standard rear motor an evolution of the S/X front motor which enables the better cruising speed consumption. Consumption is a big deal for them, after all? Not unlikely to be focused on minimum consumption in the 60-75mph range. In the city, they can't realistically compete with lighter BEV's.
When adding a front motor, considering the rear one is not huge, why not use the exact same thing again? For a not-so-heavy BEV having two of whichever motor they'll use, will be crazy quick with a 75kWh pack. If indeed the larger 2170 cells with presumed similar chemistry to the 18650's slightly reduce power out/input, no big motors are needed anyway. A low cost long range BEV with 600kWh? No.
The 300kW converter may even suffice for the whole car in fully loaded spec, 2 tiny motors. 150kW seems plenty to take care of that 6 second dash to 60mph in a cr around 1500kg? 300kW (400+hp) similarly seems enough to really utilize the 75kWh pack, and get that little launches to around 3 seconds and below. Does a low cost long range BEV need to go 2 seconds flat? Tesla made it hard on themselves focusing so much of launches. It of course sold them extra cars, helped them grow, but do they need it with Model 3? No, they are pushing out the base models first because they have 100's of 1000's to make.
The cheapest D model might see power limited to 200kW, and last longer near its peak than the non-D of 150kW. If you pay a silly amount to get a P75D plate on your rear door, full 300kW can be software enabled which you'll enjoy for maybe 5 seconds before the car drives like a normal D again. Quarter mile in the mid-high 11's, you won't be laughed at.

What do you guys think, does Model 3 need an extra converter, does it need a special P motor, and/or a special D front motor?
 
I think the reason then went with a basic version was not just because it's easier and they didn't want to sticker shock some with the addons. It was because they knew a lot of us would NOT order a non awd or non larger battery / performance version.

It's their way of being able to come closer to meeting the number of orders (400kish) . I'll bet the number of orders drops by 20 to 30%. I put my Rez in ONLY when Elon said awd would be available. If it's not available when we can order I consider that very disappointing. Because nowhere until recently did we find out no awd for months if not a year plus
 
Oh well, in Europe people will need to wait till next year also.
Making the least possible amount of option, and only small and medium battery packs makes sense. While GF1 is still ramping up, no unnecessarily strain will be put on that cell production. Same for motors and possibly inverters.
Those who want a fully loaded car will hve to wait. There is no alternative on the market to drop their reservation for.
For the base model, there is competition. Chevy Bolt is a slightly cheaper and good range spacious (for seating) car. They're not making too many of those, but it may seem like an option to base model customers. It will be good for Tesla to get the first 100,000 Model 3 unit out of the way as soon as possible. Ahead of schedule.
To whet the appetite of "fully loaded" customers, some specs can be released and even a bunch of cars being offered to journalists and the like. Say, 3P90DL's in a sports package. If that's a $60K car, people will wait, even join the waiting line.
If the fully loaded were to roll out of production first, they'd risk being flipper cars. I take delivery with the spec a biuyer wants, and he gives me $10K on top to be early. Status symbol. None of that with this "base first" plan.
 
... I put my Rez in ONLY when Elon said awd would be available. If it's not available when we can order I consider that very disappointing. Because nowhere until recently did we find out no awd for months if not a year plus

It's disappointing for me also, but according to the Tesla sales guy I spoke with, Tesla never said AWD (or P) would be available immediately, and the contract (which I'm sure not more than ten people read, out of the 400,000 who ordered, and I'm not one of those ten) says the options will be made available as Tesla sees fit. We just all assumed that fully-loaded cars would be available first, by analogy to the Signature Model S, even though that did not include AWD.

But I don't think they'll lose many orders. There's just nothing else comparable. A few people will buy a Bolt or a Leaf or some other EV. And a few will cancel for personal reasons. But the Model 3 will be (in the opinion of most, including myself) worth waiting for. I predict that the delay of AWD will result in more upgrades to the Model S than defections to other car makers.

Just my ungrounded opinions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WarpedOne
Say, 3P90DL's in a sports package. If that's a $60K car, people will wait, even join the waiting line.

Personally I was expecting the fully loaded cars to be priced at a similar multiplier to the S or X.

A base S here is £65,300, tick every option and it's £162,200. So "base" to "loaded" carries a 2.5 multiplier.

This puts the range topping 3 at $87.5k

If we look at the X, an every option car is £161,750 (counter intuitively cheaper than the S) and the base at £80,400, giving the loaded car a 2x premium multiplier.

This puts the range topping 3 at $70k

My gut is telling me the price of a loaded 3 is going to be somewhere between these, topping out at $75-80k, and at that Tesla still finding plenty of buyers.

Of course like all things Model 3 related this is all speculation, and until the design studio opens (which I am amazed hasn't happened yet given the car is due in a few months time), won't get cleared up for a while.
 
Last edited:
  • Helpful
Reactions: AnxietyRanger
until the design studio opens (which I am amazed hasn't happened yet given the car is due in a few months time), won't get cleared up for a while.

It would be very surprising to see the Model 3 Design Studio open a minute earlier than it has to. The latest tweetstorm underlined how determined Tesla is to keep selling Model S/X as hard and as long and as much as possible. A Model 3 Design Studio would be distraction. As long as Model 3 remains sort of elusively in the future, a little too vague to be real, Tesla can keep on converting those reservations to Model S...

No, they have the whole of April to get those 60 kWh orders in and confirmed. Then May and June to deliver them - and the rest of the Model S/X fleet they manage to conjure up some possibly still unknown demand levers for... maximize Q2 sales and minimize cancellations/refusals to take delivery...

Then, bang, late June, early July, whenever Tesla is comfortable with both the Q2 numbers and their ability to start delivering the Model 3, a quick round of invites to an event at the Tesla factory, Gigafactory or some such place, for some PR, where they will show the production Model 3.

Around this time they will open the Design Studio for those reservationists they expect to be able to cater within Q3. Then Q3 numbers will be all about getting as many Model 3s out the door as possible. Only those they can deliver in Q3 will be manufactured, of course. Maybe there will also be some additional demand lever to keep the Model S/X money machine churning...

It is all a big quarterly game for Tesla, this whole business. For such a longterm-minded business in theory, they sure are very short-sighted in practice. :)

I have never felt the quarterly pressures affecting me as a customer of any other car company, but with Tesla it is certainly felt even at the end-customer level.
 
Last edited:
As long as Model 3 remains sort of elusively in the future, a little too vague to be real, Tesla can keep on converting those reservations to Model S...
...
Not only converting, but also keeping people from getting cold feet and cancelling their reservations altogether.

There are certainly a number of people I have spoken to that have sky high expectations of what the 3 will be.i.e. Some sort of half price Model S, that's easier to park.

Elon may have had a rare moment of realistic expectation setting ;).

I have never felt the quarterly pressures affecting me as a customer of any other car company, but with Tesla it is certainly felt even at the end-customer level.
Likewise.
 
FWIW, I believe that Tesla has stated that the Model 3 design studio will be opened at first only to Tesla and SpaceX employees to configure their cars. Later, it will be open to the public.

This allows Tesla to plan production of the early cars, which will only be sold to employees, prior to the public reveal, which is now planned at the same time as the first production cars are finished.

GSP
 
FWIW, I believe that Tesla has stated that the Model 3 design studio will be opened at first only to Tesla and SpaceX employees to configure their cars. Later, it will be open to the public.

This allows Tesla to plan production of the early cars, which will only be sold to employees, prior to the public reveal, which is now planned at the same time as the first production cars are finished.

GSP

Good additional point. Agreed. Though I would still expect the public story to go roughly as I outlined...
 
@dsvick @daniel

I'm thinking you may be disappointed when it comes to honoring the order queue.

If past is any predictor, Tesla will probably open the Design Studio for orders in batches. These batches will be based on reservations, but most importantly region. For the very first reservation holders they may do some special things (like reserve a VIN for them), but for most I assume after that invitation to configure, everyone will be put into another queue based on their order finalization - and again depending on your configuration and/or region, that queue may or may not be honored going forward. Then, when it comes down to buidling that order (assuming configuration is available to build), region begins to matter even within a country/area - those close to factory will be prioritized for end of quarter builds and those far away will be prioritized at the start of a quarter to allow for transit within quarter...

All this will quickly wreack havoc on any nice reservation queue that may so far exist. In the end, the queue will be mostly meaningless, if things go like they have gone with Model S and Model X.

But who knows, maybe things will be different.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Informative
Reactions: smac and FlatSix911
Tesla doesn't need to make a fancy ordering page for the first employee batches. They could do it like the legacy car makers and have an internal ordering tool with a Windows 95 UI...just saying. They could even have employees order over the phone with a Q&A. The only leak would be options available.
 
@dsvick @daniel

I'm thinking you may be disappointed when it comes to honoring the order queue.

If past is any predictor, Tesla will probably open the Design Studio for orders in batches. These batches will be based on reservations, but most importantly region. For the very first reservation holders they may do some special things (like reserve a VIN for them), but for most I assume after that invitation to configure, everyone will be put into another queue based on their order finalization - and again depending on your configuration and/or region, that queue may or may not be honored going forward. Then, when it comes down to buidling that order (assuming configuration is available to build), region begins to matter even within a country/area - those close to factory will be prioritized for end of quarter builds and those far away will be prioritized at the start of a quarter to allow for transit within quarter...

All this will quickly wreack havoc on any nice reservation queue that may so far exist. In the end, the queue will be mostly meaningless, if things go like they have gone with Model S and Model X.

But who knows, maybe things will be different.

There will not be a single, unified, queue. Tesla has made that clear. But they've also said that your order in line will be based on when you reserved. Your location makes a difference, and what options you select makes a difference. But within your region and your configuration choice, earlier reserved means earlier delivered. Someone who ordered the same configuration, in the same region, earlier, will get their car earlier.

Nissan's handling of the first batch of orders of the Leaf was a total fustercluck. (That's how I ended up with my Roadster instead of a Leaf.) I don't think Tesla will make the same kind of mistake.