I started getting numbers, you said you weren't interested. Your own data shows decreasing rates of deceleration with increasing speeds.
horsepower mods do not increase engine braking, if anything, they reduce it.
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No brake llights above 136 kph (85 mph) while using regen braking
- Thread starter slcuervo
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
I started getting numbers, you said you weren't interested. Your own data shows decreasing rates of deceleration with increasing speeds.
horsepower mods do not increase engine braking, if anything, they reduce it.
OK, then please allow me to change my mind.
I am interested now, since I see you insist so much. You might have something to show me that makes me change my perception of things, so I´d like to see it.
What I am after is something like this:
If you have inputs that show higher deceleration in ICE cars, they´re welcome.
I do understand what you're saying, and i'm trying to tell you, you're chasing the wrong thing.
the RATE OF DECELERATION, in meters per second per second is what you need to be charting out. at X M/S^2 is when the brake lights come on. Find X, then you will see why this is the way it is.
it is simple math. you have a video of deceleration, right? use 1/10th of a second increments in the video and look how much the speed of the car is changing over those (approx 3) frames of video.
Or, for every frame or every 3rd frame of video copy down the time or frame number from the video and the cars speed in a spreadsheet. From there it is simple math.
I had to wait 5 months to be able to get on the road again at high speeds and test this again... But it was worth it.
Going 160 kph and above in winter isn't safe, and low temperatures often limited regen, but now I was able to try again. And I know have a video that proves my point: above 136 kph brake lights don't go on when decelerating at full regen on classic (non AP) Model S.
They do go on with AP equipped newer Model S.
This HAS to be a software glitch.
In my opinion Tesla needs to fix this asap (by replicating the brake lights behavior of AP equipped cars in classic non AP cars)...
Going 160 kph and above in winter isn't safe, and low temperatures often limited regen, but now I was able to try again. And I know have a video that proves my point: above 136 kph brake lights don't go on when decelerating at full regen on classic (non AP) Model S.
They do go on with AP equipped newer Model S.
This HAS to be a software glitch.
In my opinion Tesla needs to fix this asap (by replicating the brake lights behavior of AP equipped cars in classic non AP cars)...
So you want to take the risk to be rear-ended? I don't get it, but in any case, if you have an AP car you have the choice: don't lift the foot completely off.
Classic non AP do not even have the choice... And there is no reason why. It is unsafe and a potential safety issue.
I've already explained this to you.
The brake lights are NOT TIED TO A SPECIFIC REGEN AMOUNT. They are tied to a RATE OF DECELERATION.
Think of it this way.
How much acceleration does 60kw give you at 0mph?
How much acceleration does 60kw give you at 100mph?
At 0, you get off the line in a hurry. at 100, you might not accelerate at all. It's similar (though completely backwards) at high speeds when using regen.
60kw of regen at 50mph slows you down in a hurry. Which is why it turns on the brake lights.
60kw of regen at 100mph doesn't slow you as rapidly. No brake lights.
Try this. Sorry for using MPH.
Accelerate to 60mph. Lift up on the throttle pedal to give you 30kw of regen and maintain 30kw of regen the whole time you are decelerating. Your brake lights won't turn on until you get under 40mph (I think the line for 30kw is around 37mph but I don't exactly remember).
BTW, I have a NON AP car and this is how my car behaves.
Sorry for the frustration, but THIS IS NOT A BUG.
I have posted the deceleration rates, in meters per second squared, earlier on this thread.
I suppose you've seen it?
In case you haven´t seen it, here it is again:
It clearly shows the same deceleration rate at 170, 160, 130 and 120 kph. So if it is the same, why a different brake lights behavior?
Moreover, why the different behavior between AP and non AP cars? Like I said, I have a video (which will be edited and uploaded later on) of a 2015 Model S with Autopilot that decelerates under the same circumstances and I have measured its deceleration rate from 200 tp 190 kph: it is exactly the same (-1,1 m/s2). And brake lights are on.
So, I have calculated the decel rate at different speeds on my car, and compared it to another Model S. To me, everything proves this is a bug/glitch associated to software.
Now that you see that I am using deceleration rates, do you see my point?
I suppose you've seen it?
In case you haven´t seen it, here it is again:
It clearly shows the same deceleration rate at 170, 160, 130 and 120 kph. So if it is the same, why a different brake lights behavior?
Moreover, why the different behavior between AP and non AP cars? Like I said, I have a video (which will be edited and uploaded later on) of a 2015 Model S with Autopilot that decelerates under the same circumstances and I have measured its deceleration rate from 200 tp 190 kph: it is exactly the same (-1,1 m/s2). And brake lights are on.
So, I have calculated the decel rate at different speeds on my car, and compared it to another Model S. To me, everything proves this is a bug/glitch associated to software.
Now that you see that I am using deceleration rates, do you see my point?
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ERP
Ludicrous Member
The brake lights should not come one with regen at all. As a life long manual car driver I dislike this feature. I have always used engine braking to slow my cars, I don't need the brake lights when I bleed off some speed. I only need them for hard braking. The Tesla regen brake lights make the drivers look spastic. I've heard it from non Tesla owners. They've watched the Model S accelerate off the line or make a pass then immediately see the brake lights. They thought something was wrong with the driver, until I explained the regen brake lights.
My Lotus Elise is light enough that engine braking deceleration is very similar to the Model S regen. I can drive the Elise around town, touching the brakes as much as I do in the Tesla. Only without the excessive brake lights.
My Lotus Elise is light enough that engine braking deceleration is very similar to the Model S regen. I can drive the Elise around town, touching the brakes as much as I do in the Tesla. Only without the excessive brake lights.
Fair enough, I respect your opinion. Many others have stated their dislike of the way the system works with the brake lights under regen.
However, no one has been able to explain why it is there with AP above 85 mph and not in cars without AP. And I have gone through measuring deceleration rates and all.
By the way, if you could provide deceleration rates of your Lotus at highway speeds, I'm very interested to compare them to those of other ICEs I have included in my charts...
However, no one has been able to explain why it is there with AP above 85 mph and not in cars without AP. And I have gone through measuring deceleration rates and all.
By the way, if you could provide deceleration rates of your Lotus at highway speeds, I'm very interested to compare them to those of other ICEs I have included in my charts...
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