So why does everyone expect the model 3 to be? I just don't get it.
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What’s your measure of “goodness”? That is, what does the theoretical perfect car even look like?So why does everyone expect the model 3 to be? I just don't get it.
All a matter of perspective... If it’s warm outside and you’re annoyed with one of the people in the back seat, that could actually be a feature.like the people in the back being unable to adjust their own seat heaters...
So why does everyone expect the model 3 to be? I just don't get it.
You're the reason this thread exists...Surely, you cannot be serious. As one who very much wanted to have a M3, with a 1.5 year old deposit, but then became more and more disenchanted as more issues were discovered, I don't recall reading anyone here who expected perfection. But, the list of design and manufacturing problems, revealing a markedly inadequate vehicle development program at Tesla, rendering this car as less than a reasonable risk of $50k. Just go back and read the variety of significant problems that actual owners have experienced, far beyond the worst of most traditional automakers in this decade, and realize that those of us who bailed out were not looking for "perfection"...we were hoping for "acceptable" for a first year new program. I haven't had the number or variety of problems in my last dozen cars that have shown up just in the Model 3 so far. I'm still a BEV intender, but Tesla has a long way to go before they can demonstrate building high quality, high volume vehicles. I'm hanging around here to monitor, in case this does turn around over the time it takes my current lease to expire, even if it means being willing to accept the overweight body structure. Let's see how much time goes by without any new program-wide problems cropping up.
Surely, you cannot be serious. As one who very much wanted to have a M3, with a 1.5 year old deposit, but then became more and more disenchanted as more issues were discovered, I don't recall reading anyone here who expected perfection. But, the list of design and manufacturing problems, revealing a markedly inadequate vehicle development program at Tesla, rendering this car as less than a reasonable risk of $50k. Just go back and read the variety of significant problems that actual owners have experienced, far beyond the worst of most traditional automakers in this decade, and realize that those of us who bailed out were not looking for "perfection"...we were hoping for "acceptable" for a first year new program. I haven't had the number or variety of problems in my last dozen cars that have shown up just in the Model 3 so far. I'm still a BEV intender, but Tesla has a long way to go before they can demonstrate building high quality, high volume vehicles. I'm hanging around here to monitor, in case this does turn around over the time it takes my current lease to expire, even if it means being willing to accept the overweight body structure. Let's see how much time goes by without any new program-wide problems cropping up.
I think it's more the weirdness of Tesla as not-really-a-car-company getting so many amazing things into the car, but then seeming to step on their you-know-what with relatively basic stuff other cars have"
You made the mistake of spending too much time on forums.Surely, you cannot be serious. As one who very much wanted to have a M3, with a 1.5 year old deposit, but then became more and more disenchanted as more issues were discovered, I don't recall reading anyone here who expected perfection. But, the list of design and manufacturing problems, revealing a markedly inadequate vehicle development program at Tesla, rendering this car as less than a reasonable risk of $50k. Just go back and read the variety of significant problems that actual owners have experienced, far beyond the worst of most traditional automakers in this decade, and realize that those of us who bailed out were not looking for "perfection"...we were hoping for "acceptable" for a first year new program. I haven't had the number or variety of problems in my last dozen cars that have shown up just in the Model 3 so far. I'm still a BEV intender, but Tesla has a long way to go before they can demonstrate building high quality, high volume vehicles. I'm hanging around here to monitor, in case this does turn around over the time it takes my current lease to expire, even if it means being willing to accept the overweight body structure. Let's see how much time goes by without any new program-wide problems cropping up.
You made the mistake of spending too much time on forums.
If you'd never heard of the internet you'd be driving your own M3 right now, and would probably never have had any of the problems you've read about.
So why does everyone expect the model 3 to be? I just don't get it.
You made the mistake of spending too much time on forums.
If you'd never heard of the internet you'd be driving your own M3 right now, and would probably never have had any of the problems you've read about.
You're the reason this thread exists...
The overweight body structure on Model 3 was by design.
I guarantee that whatever you buy instead of the Model 3 will be boring in comparison.Likely not. Once I saw the vehicle on display at the Las Vegas showroom, I knew the program was not ready for volume production. As discussed in an earlier thread, the build flaws on that display vehicle were apparent. Had I gone ahead anyway, the chances are just as good I'd have been one of those who have experienced the variety of issues we've read here.
I'm honored, but I think you grant me too much power. More likely, the amatuer debate tactic of overstating the opponent's position ("expecting perfection") as a straw man to then "reasonably" knock down was looking for an opportunity to make a meaningless point. In the ~2 years I've been here, I found no one expecting perfection...just reasonable first year quality...and that has not appeared in volume to this point. I hope for future improvement, while keeping in mind that humans don't achieve "perfection"....just varying degrees of a job well-done.
Nonsense. If you ask a competent engineer if the glass is half-full or half-empty, they will point out that the glass was twice the size it needed to be. No skilled engineer makes anything "overweight...by design". The use of sub-panels welded together was more common in the last century and has been dismissed by many as inefficient and causing excess weight for no functional benefit.
I really was hoping for success and to be a M3 owner at this point. Despite my concerns from 30 years in this industry, I was optimistic based on reviews of the Model S...apparently too optimistic. Doesn't mean there aren't many great things about M3. Unfortunately, as relative amateurs in the industry, Tesla took too many shortcuts in vehicle development and it's showing in this year's build. One can romanticize Elon sleeping in the plant as much as one wishes, but that level of desperation just does not happen if a program is anywhere near to being in control. I've been through enough vehicle launches to know how this goes, and this one has not gone well. With lessons learned, I expect better from them next time and I will be back to reconsider versus other BEVs when I'm ready to buy/lease again.
I guarantee that whatever you buy instead of the Model 3 will be boring in comparison.
Youll be driving a boring car, but hey! No panel gaps!
You must embrace the risk, grasshopper. Life is too short!LOL....I'm getting by meanwhile with another 3 Series....at least it has a "3" in it meanwhile! (6 months old...no issues to report)
Likely not. Once I saw the vehicle on display at the Las Vegas showroom, I knew the program was not ready for volume production. As discussed in an earlier thread, the build flaws on that display vehicle were apparent. Had I gone ahead anyway, the chances are just as good I'd have been one of those who have experienced the variety of issues we've read here.
I'm honored, but I think you grant me too much power. More likely, the amatuer debate tactic of overstating the opponent's position ("expecting perfection") as a straw man to then "reasonably" knock down was looking for an opportunity to make a meaningless point. In the ~2 years I've been here, I found no one expecting perfection...just reasonable first year quality...and that has not appeared in volume to this point. I hope for future improvement, while keeping in mind that humans don't achieve "perfection"....just varying degrees of a job well-done.
Nonsense. If you ask a competent engineer if the glass is half-full or half-empty, they will point out that the glass was twice the size it needed to be. No skilled engineer makes anything "overweight...by design". The use of sub-panels welded together was more common in the last century and has been dismissed by many as inefficient and causing excess weight for no functional benefit.
I really was hoping for success and to be a M3 owner at this point. Despite my concerns from 30 years in this industry, I was optimistic based on reviews of the Model S...apparently too optimistic. Doesn't mean there aren't many great things about M3. Unfortunately, as relative amateurs in the industry, Tesla took too many shortcuts in vehicle development and it's showing in this year's build. One can romanticize Elon sleeping in the plant as much as one wishes, but that level of desperation just does not happen if a program is anywhere near to being in control. I've been through enough vehicle launches to know how this goes, and this one has not gone well. With lessons learned, I expect better from them next time and I will be back to reconsider versus other BEVs when I'm ready to buy/lease again.