-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
No CCS compatibility; legal?
- Thread starter PMFTanx
- Start date
I’m not arguing the specific point on this one. I don’t see it as a huge deal.
My meaning was that many users on the forum point to the contract as the defense and I’m pointing out that using that contract as justification doesn’t make sense to me.
The better argument is precisely this one that you made: it’s a feature never promised that isn’t even supported.
My counter to that would be: when it is supported, the fact remains some people got the hardware that enabled future upgrades and some didn’t but they all paid the same price.
I still wouldn’t sue over it or anything but I will argue that it’s poor customer service.
Well, you know darn well it would be class action. I’d be surprised if it doesn’t happen.Almost any lawyer?
We agree on that (that its poor form), for sure. Other manufacturers deal with this by only making changes during a model year change over, for the most part. It prevents exactly this issue, where (for example) there are various model Ys with data going to their USB console ports, and same model year model 3s with power only USB ports.
Some with heated steering wheels, some without (same model year), some with Intel chipset for infotainment, some with ryzen chipset (same model year). The "move fast and break stuff" Silicon valley tech bro mantra leads to this.
I dont like it either, but from a legal perspective am pretty sure there isnt much that can be done. I dont think tesla would be doing this either except for supply chain issues. In the past, they changed over, and "everything after XXX date" got YYY. It appears now they are flip flopping back and forth as they attempt to "keep the lines running".
I'm surprised anyone would even suggest this could be a legal matter. Probably just angry speak.
In my opinion, angry speak for a silly reason (CCS). Sounds like you made it to your destination without CCS. I'd wager based on your "didn't know this", "didn't know that" claims that you didn't even know what CCS was at the time you purchased the car.
You're literally driving the world's second best automobile (behind the M3
) and complaining that it doesn't connect to some third rate broken charger network. You can travel across the entire US using SuperChargers, and they add more every month. Let's be thankful about it instead of bitter.
In my opinion, angry speak for a silly reason (CCS). Sounds like you made it to your destination without CCS. I'd wager based on your "didn't know this", "didn't know that" claims that you didn't even know what CCS was at the time you purchased the car.
You're literally driving the world's second best automobile (behind the M3
) and complaining that it doesn't connect to some third rate broken charger network. You can travel across the entire US using SuperChargers, and they add more every month. Let's be thankful about it instead of bitter.You’re right, I didn’t know. But now I do, so your point being? And now I know some people have it and some people don’t. I’m not angry, I’m just surprised that this is legal that people pay the same amount of money for a product and some get certain things others don’t. For instance, I don’t go to Apple and buy a phone wondering if I’ll get a charging cord and brick. It’s not a mystery, apple gives that to everyone, it’s not luck of the draw based on supply chain constraints.I'm surprised anyone would even suggest this could be a legal matter. Probably just angry speak.
In my opinion, angry speak for a silly reason (CCS). Sounds like you made it to your destination without CCS. I'd wager based on your "didn't know this", "didn't know that" claims that you didn't even know what CCS was at the time you purchased the car.
You're literally driving the world's second best automobile (behind the M3
Now, back to the original point, this is more on the consumer as I didn’t do my own due diligence and get a specific line by line document as to what is included. Instead, I could have and realized I may or may not get certain things and decided from there. Would I have still pulled the trigger? Yes.
In general, where I live the SC is adequate, but not without its inconveniences. There is a certain part of the state (where I go) where the SC network doesn’t exist and it’s a 45-60 minute hike in the wrong direction to get home, if you don’t plan it right. But, that is one thing I knew going into it. So, I apologize for wanting access to another network that would make my trip 90 minutes (round trip) easier. I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings by an indirect diss of the Tesla SC network.
side note; I’ve driven many makes and models in the 25 years I’ve been driving. I’ve driven about 4 brand new cars, one of them being a Tesla. The other 3 total visits to the dealership to have things fixed is 0. The Tesla, in 11 months? 3, about to be 4. I’m a recovering Tesla fan boi; I like the car, most fun car I’ve ever driven, gas savings is nice, auto pilot is decent, but it’s not without its issues. I can’t say my model Y is the best car on the road from a manufacturing or customer service standpoint. Both are pretty poor, unfortunately. I also realize this is most likely nothing more than bad luck.
Last edited:
Hippo25
Member
@PMFTanx
Since you have done from what I read a little research on the Lemon Law in Michigan. Make sure all your service invoices match up to the same (1) below. Different things that may seem similar may be looked as different items. Not from Tesla experience. So keep all the info, and if the customer states.... is different. Have them correct it.
(1) Either four times for the same defect or condition and the problem must continue; or
(2) The car was out of service for 30 days during the first year of ownership due to repairs.
Law, legal, suing, or arbitration. All seem to be in that general area. I would say that my car came to me in 2017. It charges faster than it did when I got it. Has less than 10% degradation. The EV world is far from perfect right now. Having a little patience will reward most Tesla owners. It did for us in Michigan.
I would also think if the manual shows how to calibrate the window it would be an included item.
Hey I take my car to Toledo. I have better experience there, and a proactive bunch. Drive past a service center on the way. Nothing is perfect.
Since you have done from what I read a little research on the Lemon Law in Michigan. Make sure all your service invoices match up to the same (1) below. Different things that may seem similar may be looked as different items. Not from Tesla experience. So keep all the info, and if the customer states.... is different. Have them correct it.
(1) Either four times for the same defect or condition and the problem must continue; or
(2) The car was out of service for 30 days during the first year of ownership due to repairs.
Law, legal, suing, or arbitration. All seem to be in that general area. I would say that my car came to me in 2017. It charges faster than it did when I got it. Has less than 10% degradation. The EV world is far from perfect right now. Having a little patience will reward most Tesla owners. It did for us in Michigan.
I would also think if the manual shows how to calibrate the window it would be an included item.
Hey I take my car to Toledo. I have better experience there, and a proactive bunch. Drive past a service center on the way. Nothing is perfect.
Might as well continue to derail my own thread
I prefer Toledo, actually. That was the first place I took it for the trunk leak. They said after this, if that doesn’t fix it, have to go to a service center with a body shop. Did that, still leaks (and window still intermittent).
***start rant***
I actually understand that this line of vehicles is new, Tesla is fairly new at making cars and stuff happens. The part that really gets me going is that the service center and Tesla corporate don’t seem to care at all. They’re willing to fix it, sure, but they take the car and say “done tomorrow”. Then, they keep rolling it to the next day, then the next day, and before you know it, they’ve got your car for a week and Uber doesn’t work in my area (rural). 3 of the 6 days, my car didn’t move from the parking lot either. The care factor of the Service center folk couldn’t be any lower. So, here I am trying to be proactive for my next appointment to have the leak fixed, hoping I can get in line for a loaner and they tell me “check the day before”. So, I guess if they don’t have one and since I rely on a car, I can cancel, reschedule and hope for a loaner at that appointment another 3 weeks down the road. If they don’t have one try again? Or I can rent a car at my expense for an unknown amount of time while they chase the leak.
***end rant///bow***
alexcue
Member
Ummm... just want to point out.... you don't get the brick anymore... Those damn sneaky bastards!
And some countries have sued Apple over this...
Tesla never promised or said there would be CCS support. You seem to think somehow it was promised to you by tesla and yours doesn't have it.. I think that's the big hole in your argument.. If they would've advertised "CCS Compatibility!" on their website, I'd agree with you.
No, I’m agreeing with you. Like some said, I didn’t even know what it was when I bought it. But when you’re standing in line behind someone that got CSS compatibility on their model Y for the same price I paid, I want it too. That’s all.
So how do you feel about the stuff Tesla has been adding without notification or asking permission? Improved processor, better 12V battery, myriad other internal changes. We're in this weird situation where cars are backordered 9-12 months, and this particular company continuously changes many things about the car. I don't think I want them to build me a version of last year's car just so that I get what I ordered last November. I like that unlike legacy manufacturers they engage in continuous improvement rather than holding back and delivering the same vehicle until they roll out a "new"model. When my car finally shows up I'll decide whether I want the currently produced vehicle with whatever additions and deletions it might have at last year's price. If all of a sudden they change the battery pack so that it only has 200 miles of range, I'll walk. If they fix the windshield wipers and make cruise control actually work, I'll be happy.
With the current ordering/production time distortion one would be much better off buying a used vehicle if certainty about the exact composition of the product is paramount.
With the current ordering/production time distortion one would be much better off buying a used vehicle if certainty about the exact composition of the product is paramount.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Apple, just like Tesla, gave you a product that met the published specifications at the time of purchase - which is precisely what they owed you.
What possible “legal” reason should exist that would inhibit manufacturers from adding (or not adding) a specific part that enables or disables a feature for which there has never been any announcement, guarantee, or published support for?
Well, It’s been an enlightening discussion. I can see logical answers for both sides now. Tesla just does stuff different. Buy your Model Y, we assign a vin and we’ll see what little features you may or may not get. I actually wish I knew this was a thing before ordering, but it wouldn’t have changed my decision.
Thanks for the discussion folks!
Thanks for the discussion folks!
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Sounds like he is trying to build an argument for Tesla to take back the car.
I'm just surprised he has not declared that lack of CCS is a safety issue.
"I want it because others got it when I got mine, and I dont understand why I dont have it" I totally understand. I totally 100% get that desire. I even agree with you that its kinda crappy you dont have it. The only issue I had was framing it as a legal issue.
I have spent quite a bit of time here at TMC (as likely would be expected from a moderator, but most of us are volunteers, including me), and one thing that I can absolutely say "is a thing" is that, how the opening post in a thread is framed will drive most of the discussion in the thread.
I think we are past the "legal issue?" question now though, so with that out of the way, will say I understand your desire, and if it were me, I would likely ASK tesla if this is something they would retrofit for me, but I would not EXPECT them to do it, and I would not frame it as "You owe this to me" even if I was disappointed I didnt get it.