No free Supercharger for Model 3?

[MiamiNole]

New Ive been saying this over and over in this forum since April.

SC'ing is not just for Long Distance travel. Even Tesla is saying this in so many words. I mean..... how many long distance travelers go grocery shopping?

Tesla partners with grocery chain on Midwest Supercharger expansion

Don't want to sound like I'm piling it on as many others have already responded to this post, but I wanted to add another perspective.

Why shouldn't SCs be placed at grocery stores? Pretty much every gas station I've seen has a convenience store tied to it. If Tesla isn't going to open up their own convenience store chain to tether to their SC locations or place SCs at existing gas stations with convenience stores, then why wouldn't they choose to place them at a grocery store? On most long road trips, I find myself always stopping at a grocery store or Walmart to load up on snacks and juice for my family. I'd much rather have that than have a SC tied to a restaurant or fast-food chain.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Don't want to sound like I'm piling it on as many others have already responded to this post, but I wanted to add another perspective.

Why shouldn't SCs be placed at grocery stores? Pretty much every gas station I've seen has a convenience store tied to it. If Tesla isn't going to open up their own convenience store chain to tether to their SC locations or place SCs at existing gas stations with convenience stores, then why wouldn't they choose to place them at a grocery store? On most long road trips, I find myself always stopping at a grocery store or Walmart to load up on snacks and juice for my family. I'd much rather have that than have a SC tied to a restaurant or fast-food chain.

I would put them everywhere now that Tesla will be assigning a fee for KWh's used.

Hmmm lets see....what's a common place where people spend a half hour to an hour on average?

 

[jgillispie]

Not sure if you are all familiar with Hy-Vees but most of them are more than grocery stores now. The ones here have fully staffed restaurants inside, plus pizza, chinese, and deli bars for takeout. Also if you are a craft beer or wine enthusiast, many of them have a very good selection to browse thru while waiting.

Edit: If you're going thru on a Sunday check out the super brunch they do. All while the football games are on the TV's as well.

 

[Trips]

A little bit about Hy-Vee. They are the ones paying for the electricity and site. That is saving Tesla money by doing it that way. Hy-Vee gets additional business at a reduced cost as they were going to add ChargePoint anyways. All of the locations are close to the major roads.

Hy-Vee is moving to having a full sit down restaurant, full bar, NFL Sunday Ticket, Starbucks, bank etc in each store.

I would put them everywhere now that Tesla will be assigning a fee for KWh's used.

Tesla has stated that it does not want to make money on the usage. You can buy a SC yourself if you really wanted to and I expect Hy-Vee and others to do exactly that.

 

[Gig103]

Tesla has stated that it does not want to make money on the usage. You can buy a SC yourself if you really wanted to and I expect Hy-Vee and others to do exactly that.

Tesla shareholders DO want to make money on the usage, though. Didn't Tesla say that service centers weren't going to be "profit centers" and they charge $500 for annual wiper blades, keyfob batteries, and a wheel alignment.

I'm not in favor of this attitude, just a bit of a pessimist.

 

[Topher]

Tesla shareholders DO want to make money on the usage, though.

Do they? Care to prove it? Evidence says otherwise, since shareholders have done nothing to influence that to happen.

Thank you kindly.

 

[jgillispie]

Tesla shareholders DO want to make money on the usage, though. Didn't Tesla say that service centers weren't going to be "profit centers" and they charge $500 for annual wiper blades, keyfob batteries, and a wheel alignment.

I'm not in favor of this attitude, just a bit of a pessimist.

I'm assuming there's some sort of large, multi-point inspection that makes up most of that cost.

 

[Garlan Garner]

A little bit about Hy-Vee. They are the ones paying for the electricity and site. That is saving Tesla money by doing it that way. Hy-Vee gets additional business at a reduced cost as they were going to add ChargePoint anyways. All of the locations are close to the major roads.

Hy-Vee is moving to having a full sit down restaurant, full bar, NFL Sunday Ticket, Starbucks, bank etc in each store.



Tesla has stated that it does not want to make money on the usage. You can buy a SC yourself if you really wanted to and I expect Hy-Vee and others to do exactly that.

I can buy a SC? from who? Tesla doesn't sell them.

 

[MP3Mike]

I can buy a SC? from who? Tesla doesn't sell them.

Yes they do. I have heard of private SCs in both Jordan and Canada. But they do limit the private SCs to 60kW. I seem to recall reading that if you buy ~10 Teslas that they will give you one SC to install to support your fleet.

Here is an article about some private SCs.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Yes they do. I have heard of private SCs in both Jordan and Canada. But they do limit the private SCs to 60kW. I seem to recall reading that if you buy ~10 Teslas that they will give you one SC to install to support your fleet.

Here is an article about some private SCs.

WOW. Amazing. I would never have guessed.

 

[Tam]

In today's Tesla/Solar City merger, Elon gave more details on Model ≡ Superchaging:

"free unlimited charging is not included, so, free long distance is, but not free local."

If I take those words literally, I could assume that is a different program than the generic one that was just announced.

The current one provides 400 kWh whether you use it local or long distance.

Elon's today's detail on Model ≡ seems to suggest that local Supercharging will cost you but free long distance is still a zero addtional cost.

 

[T34ME]

In today's Tesla/Solar City merger, Elon gave more details on Model ≡ Superchaging:

"free unlimited charging is not included, so, free long distance is, but not free local."

If I take those words literally, I could assume that is a different program than the generic one that was just announced.

The current one provides 400 kWh whether you use it local or long distance.

Elon's today's detail on Model ≡ seems to suggest that local Supercharging will cost you but free long distance is still a zero addtional cost.

Yes, I agree. I think the email I received was worded specifically to include Model S/X only as a promotion to move model 3 reservation holders to a model S/X. I am not interested in that deal. It appears that as a result of today's news conference, Elon has something entirely different in mind for the Model 3 and Superchargers. I am hopeful that there will be something creative for Supercharging the Model 3.

 

[Tam]

...I am hopeful that there will be something creative for Supercharging the Model 3.

Until there's a clear policy, it's not written in stone.

But it makes sense to implement free ANYWHERE 400 kWh program for a smaller number of Model X and S in comparison with the much larger of Model ≡.

When you give that free ANYWHERE, it would encourage more people to use that first 400 kWh including local use.

That would be manageable in a smaller number, but if you carry that ANYWHERE program to 400,000 Model ≡, local Superchargers could be flooded when local owners may want the free charging before annually expirations.

Thus, for a higher number of Model ≡, it makes sense to discourage that mass to charge locally, thus the cost.

But if they want free, they can travel to a remote area and the impact would be minimized.

 

[ecarfan]

In today's Tesla/Solar City merger, Elon gave more details on Model ≡ Superchaging: "free unlimited charging is not included, so, free long distance is, but not free local." If I take those words literally, I could assume that is a different program than the generic one that was just announced. The current one provides 400 kWh whether you use it local or long distance. Elon's today's detail on Model ≡ seems to suggest that local Supercharging will cost you but free long distance is still a zero addtional cost.

I agree and I was happy to read what Elon said yesterday (I just watched the video of the Q&A to confirm it). It seems clear to me that after 1/1/2017 the "included" Supercharging plan for the S/X will be different than the 3. Exactly how Tesla will implement the stated Model 3 Supercharging plan remains to be seen. There are a variety of possibilities.

 

[Gig103]

Until there's a clear policy, it's not written in stone.

But it makes sense to implement free ANYWHERE 400 kWh program for a smaller number of Model X and S in comparison with the much larger of Model ≡.

When you give that free ANYWHERE, it would encourage more people to use that first 400 kWh including local use.

That would be manageable in a smaller number, but if you carry that ANYWHERE program to 400,000 Model ≡, local Superchargers could be flooded when local owners may want the free charging before annually expirations.

Thus, for a higher number of Model ≡, it makes sense to discourage that mass to charge locally, thus the cost.

But if they want free, they can travel to a remote area and the impact would be minimized.

What if for the Model 3, Tesla implements a hybrid of what we've been discussing on TMC? That is to say, a certain number of credits (despite the relatively low pricetag) and geofencing? So, 200-400kWh ("free"), a minimum 100mi ("long distance") from your home? The most obvious problem becomes keeping track of that (is it based on where it's garaged 80% of the time? Registration Address? MyTesla account? Proof based on insurance?), which is why I am not proposing it with much confidence. But it does fit.

 

[Tam]

...But it does fit.

It is an administration nightmare for billing bureaucrats but since Tesla is a technolgy company I don't perceive any difficulty in implementing complicated rules including automatic geo-fencing based on address of record.

(I has proven historically to implement sucessfully and seamlessly very complicated ongoing different software restricted options to different owners, such different early vs later high tech packages, Supercharger accessability to different older MS60 ...)

 

[BluestarE3]

It is an administration nightmare for billing bureaucrats but since Tesla is a technolgy company I don't perceive any difficulty in implementing complicated rules including automatic geo-fencing based on address of record.

I can envision Tesla geo-fencing the Superchargers and making the owners pay for them. Seems to be a policy that's recently gained traction as being acceptable to many.

 

[N5329K]

I have no special interpretation to add here, other than to suggest this: given what Tesla is trying to accomplish (thrive as a company and promote the transition away from fossil fuels to electric-powered transport) the new SC policy probably seeks to eliminate the use of the SC network as substitute home chargers and allows easy and convenient use of SC's for true long-distance travel. I don't know from what Mr Musk said if that means sophisticated code to distinguish Tesla vehicles on a long trip from those on local errands with free power restricted to long-distance users, or a simpler accounting scheme to provide annual deposits of a certain number of KWh credits. But the two Prime Directives referenced above will surely be served by it. Of that I have no doubt at all.
Robin

 

[Snow Drift]

I think we are getting too complicated with geofencing.

Think of it this way, keep it simple:

Free 400kwh/year = 1k miles. That is about 6 (170 mile) SC refills per year. That could be 3 long distance round trips.

If you only get 400kwh/year for free you are more likely to save them for long trips and just charge for cheaper at home, for commuting.

The price of a SC charge will be more than at-home to curb daily use.