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No incentive to keep improving AutoPilot on HW1

Discussion in 'Model S' started by mhw23, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    They have already broken one promise, and that was not even a technical or safety issue - where are the promised new sun visors with lighted mirrors that all cars were meant to be swapped to? Conveniently forgotten!
     
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  2. Max*

    Max* Charging

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    The longer you owned the car, the longer the list is (4-port USB, internal hard drive, etc.). Just like I'm betting that AP2 will never reach FSD (Autonomy level 5).


    With that being said, Tesla will do nothing. Tesla is also likely obligated to do nothing. Where in your contract does it state that Tesla has to make summon meet you at the door? Sure it WAS on the website when you ordered, but it's not in your contract.

    Is it ethical/moral/etc. -- hell no, it's very shady.
     
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  3. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    Exactly what, exactly? Is there a legal definition of "too" close in this context? If you hang back far enough to see over/around such trucks it is extremely likely that someone will cut between you and the truck.
     
  4. aesculus

    aesculus Still Trying to Figure This All Out

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    Not sure what the legal requirement is but there is always the "3 second rule".:)
    Following Distance
     
  5. MarkS22

    MarkS22 Member

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    #65 MarkS22, Jan 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    There are consumer (and business) protection laws, particularly strong in California, for truth in advertising. It doesn't have to be in a contract.
     
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  6. MarkS22

    MarkS22 Member

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    It is the driver's responsibility to see the light before entering the intersection. Someone else cutting in front of you, going through an intersection blindly, isn't a defense. Following a truck or bus blindly into an intersection has resulted in fatalities from being broadsided.

    That said, you can sometimes get out of this ticket using an "obstructed view" defense. But we're talking about Autopilot and what should be done safely. And that means not entering an intersection without definitely knowing it's a green (or yellow) light.
     
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  7. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    That's just my point -- what is AP going to do if it is behind a truck? It won't know it is even approaching an intersection. Are we proposing that it will never follow a truck so closely as to lose (potential) traffic light visibility? What is it going to do when you wind up
    squeezed between a slowing truck in front of you and a not-slowing car behind you? It is hard to imagine a better recipe for being
    (illegally, yes, but none the less dangerously and annoyingly) rear-ended than to suddenly slow down while approaching a green light.
     
  8. MarkS22

    MarkS22 Member

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    #68 MarkS22, Jan 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    I believe it will know it's approaching the majority of traffic light controlled intersections. It could begin to back off to allow a view of the light based on GPS location and a database of known traffic signal heights. It could take a measurement of the height of the vehicle in front, then calculate the angle and distance behind the vehicle in front to see the traffic light. Tesla Vision could also identify what looks to be an intersection approaching with visual cues (like metal traffic light posts, perpendicular asphalt, or gaps in the Jersey barriers, to name a few). It could eventually use C2X to receive the light status wirelessly. With fleet learning, it's going to know the vast majority of traffic light locations in 3D space. On roads that aren't highly mapped, it can be even more conservative behind large vehicles.

    Also, the current suite has 8 cameras, with several looking to the side. Unlike humans, it can be watching other lights perpendicular to the current path for additional data. If it sees those lights are green, for example, it can decelerate without even needing to see the red light ahead. I suspect the software watching for cross-traffic paths will be a very high priority (e.g. is there a car approaching the intersection I'm about to cross? Is there a possibility of a collision if it maintains current speed?) To be as safe as possible, it also has to assume human drivers may potentially run a red light.

    I also suspect there with be a priority for pathfinding a safe solution at all times. IF perpendicular vehicle speeds up, THEN do this. This could mean anything from knowing nobody is behind you to slam the brakes, to knowing there's a clear path if it accelerates and switches lanes quickly. The key will be Autopilot always having a freespace "out path" ready to go. Imagine how many accidents could be avoided with a perfect 360 awareness around the vehicle. The vast majority of accidents could be avoided by braking, accelerating (especially in a Tesla), or swerving into a known freespace.
     
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  9. ZeroDarkSilver

    ZeroDarkSilver HEPA cleaning your atmosphere, you're welcome

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    Even if there's never another software update to my AP1 car, it will still be the best car I've ever owned. Like by a long shot. A really really long shot. And it's possibly, probably? the best product I've ever purchased.

    No car manufacturer has ever offered to upgrade my car, in any way, after it left the dealer lot, much less over-the-air without needing to bring it in, much less for free. All I've ever received were offers to buy ****ing updated navigation DVDs for $300, no thanks.

    So yeah, not really looking the gift horse in the mouth on this one...
     
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  10. George Jetson

    George Jetson Member

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    I have a loaner AP1 P85D that received a notification for a software update (1h40m) last night. I'm driving the dog hauler today, so I don't know the exact nature or version number until I get back home this evening. Has any other AP1 driver noticed this?
     
  11. LastGas

    LastGas Member

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    @ George Jetson With a P85D, the update is probably 2.52.20, which is supposed to have some unspecified AP 1.0 software improvement. A few AP 2.0 cars are getting 2.52.36--which I think is Ludicrous+.

    If you get release notes, please share.
     
  12. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    @MarkS22, I thought we were talking about HW1 here.
     
  13. Topher

    Topher Energy Curmudgeon

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    There isn't any rationale. Elon is going to do it anyways.

    Thank you kindly.
     
  14. Carl

    Carl Supporting Member

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    @Topher: did you notice your browser is automatically putting "Thank you kindly" under each of your posts?

    8471770225_597ff52386_b.jpg
     
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  15. mhw23

    mhw23 Member

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    By the way, HW1 already has pedestrian detection. Search youtube for Tesla pedestrian detection to see the test. Even though the pedestrian doesn't register on the dashboard, the car does stop. In one of the test runs, the pedestrian even shows up on the Autopilot system screen! I think stop sign and traffic light detection should be doable with HW1 but given that Tesla has effectively severed its relationship with Mobileye, I'm not holding my breath for any major improvements beyond 8.1 functionality.

    I opened this thread not as a complaint - as many have pointed out, HW1 cars are great, and we should be amazed to be getting any updates at all. I was simply looking for opinions on what is possible and speculation on what we can expect going forward.

    I am thankful to have autopilot every day on my commute. It has really been life changing.

    Happy driving everyone!
     
    • Like x 1
  16. Topher

    Topher Energy Curmudgeon

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    Nope.

    ThAnK YoU KiNdLy.
     
  17. Max*

    Max* Charging

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    I think you may need to clear your cache.
     
  18. MarkS22

    MarkS22 Member

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    Yes, I got carried away on how HW2 (and beyond) can improve upon traffic light detection behind large vehicles. However, that wasn't all for nothing. Having HW2's data as I described can make HW1's traffic light handling safer. Using the GPS, fleet data from HW2, and the single HW1 camera should still be able calculate spacing to see a known, upcoming traffic light.

    I'm not suggesting HW1 will ever be safe enough to use Autopilot on a highway with traffic lights without paying attention. I'd just like to see it slow down or stop as an added safety feature. Really just an addition to TACC where "stop sign" or "red light" behaves likes a stopped vehicle.
     
  19. fasteddie7

    fasteddie7 Member

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    I believe hw1 will not only see improvements regularly, but still will gain capabilities from not only other ap1 cars, but from ap2 cars as well. The incentive is that early adopters made the company succeed, and I don't know that Tesla would want these folks to have anything remiss to say to their family, friends, and others that they refer. Since Tesla doesn't advertise at all, they rely entirely on word or mouth, and I, with both a hw1 and hw2 car would still be happy to suggest Tesla as an option for my friends and family, and I would hope that the company wouldn't go out of their way to change that. I understand there will be hardware limitations, but I'd expect to see the company support their hardware beyond a few months after the last version was sold. Maybe I'm delusional.
     
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  20. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    You mean "like" as in "like you'd want it to work in an ideal world, where it would actually notice a stopped vehicle" and not as in "exactly
    like it does today, where it will cheerfully slam you into the rear-end of a fully stopped vehicle at full speed", right?
     
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