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No Model III until 2019?

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Saloon and sedan are the same thing. Only in Britain, they don't mind if their saloon is a liftback, rather than a notchback. Americans have been conditioned to believe a sedan should always be a notchback, with a trunk separate from the passenger cabin. This feeling is especially reinforced when it comes to marketing premium, expensive, or luxury sedans in the US. I think it is another outgrowth of the horse and carriage era, when baggage, or trunks, were always completely separate from the passenger coach. Only servants handled the luggage, you see, so there was no need for passengers to have access to it. Such a thing was... Beneath them, you see.
 
Saloon and sedan are the same thing. Only in Britain, they don't mind if their saloon is a liftback, rather than a notchback. Americans have been conditioned to believe a sedan should always be a notchback, with a trunk separate from the passenger cabin. This feeling is especially reinforced when it comes to marketing premium, expensive, or luxury sedans in the US. I think it is another outgrowth of the horse and carriage era, when baggage, or trunks, were always completely separate from the passenger coach. Only servants handled the luggage, you see, so there was no need for passengers to have access to it. Such a thing was... Beneath them, you see.

So a Saloon must be a 4 dr ? no Coupes ? Can a Sedan be a 2 dr ? Is the difference a B Pillar ?
 
The reason why I rather despised German marques for decades is that they built two door sedans instead of proper coupes. AUDI, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Volkswagen were guilty of that. In recent years though, there have been four door coupes offered by the Germans that are every bit as fetching as the two door variety. Strangely though, it seems those sedans and coupes are all likely to disappear, because they are greatly outsold by the old, stodgy, erect designs of lore. Apparently traditional buyers feel the lower, sleeker cars like the CLS-Class are 'too Japanese looking'. BMW is to be commended for giving it a great try with the 4-Series, as those are two door coupes, and four door gran coupes.
 
The reason why I rather despised German marques for decades is that they built two door sedans instead of proper coupes. AUDI, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Volkswagen were guilty of that. In recent years though, there have been four door coupes offered by the Germans that are every bit as fetching as the two door variety. Strangely though, it seems those sedans and coupes are all likely to disappear, because they are greatly outsold by the old, stodgy, erect designs of lore. Apparently traditional buyers feel the lower, sleeker cars like the CLS-Class are 'too Japanese looking'. BMW is to be commended for giving it a great try with the 4-Series, as those are two door coupes, and four door gran coupes.

I always thought - perhaps wrongly - that coupes were two door and sedans were 4 door. I do not get the Grand Coupe at all .... just call it a sedan. Am I wrong here ?

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From Wiki ...... A coupé (US coupe) (from the French past participle coupé, of the infinitive couper, to cut) is a closed two-door car body style with a permanently attached fixed roof
 
That doesn't make sense. How would a lower version of the same vehicle have more space? Taking a foot or so off the roof height of a vehicle will give you less space.

I said comparable. Car&Driver did an article a few years back that showed an E-Class wagon had more room than an ML. Actually IIRC they found that the E-Class wagon had more cargo space than most of the CUV's and SUV's on the market at the time.
 
Wagons are popular for people that carry dogs in the back, and they have the ability to put up a cargo barrier.

And a sedan isolates the boot/trunk space from the passenger section removing unwanted noise from cargo, although the teslas have a frunk so they overcome that problem.
 
Wagons are popular for people that carry dogs in the back, and they have the ability to put up a cargo barrier.
My wife won't buy a car unless it's a wagon/hatchback with room for both of our dogs in the back with a barrier. She doesn't want the 75lb lap dog trying to climb in her lap while driving.

And a sedan isolates the boot/trunk space from the passenger section removing unwanted noise from cargo, although the teslas have a frunk so they overcome that problem.
Noisy cargo? Aside from kidnapping victims, I can't really think of anything. :smile:
 
With all the delays of late, I am among many who are skeptical that we will see it anytime in 2017. Also, cost seems to be a big variable. Certainly the $7.5k credit will be exhausted by then so that puts a lot of pressure to find organic savings rather than just assuming the average Joe will get a 7.5k write-off. I wish Tesla the best of success though. The sooner the EV revolution reaches a critical mass the better off we will all be.
 
With all the delays of late, I am among many who are skeptical that we will see it anytime in 2017. Also, cost seems to be a big variable. Certainly the $7.5k credit will be exhausted by then so that puts a lot of pressure to find organic savings rather than just assuming the average Joe will get a 7.5k write-off. I wish Tesla the best of success though. The sooner the EV revolution reaches a critical mass the better off we will all be.

You should refer to this thread:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/34201-Expiration-of-7-500-federal-tax-credit-w-Model-3

Depending on when the Model 3 rolls out, and depending on sales of the S and X, probably the first year of production of the Model 3 will be covered. Of course, the first year will also be a ramp-up period where fewer are made, but hopefully several tens of thousands of Model 3's will be eligible for the federal tax credit.

The other thing to bear in mind is that because this is a tax credit and not a rebate, the value of the tax credit will not necessarily be $7,500 for everyone. This is an "up to" amount. Many states have rebates which are guaranteed amounts, but the individual value of the federal tax credit can vary depending on how much tax you owe pre-credit.
 
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With all the delays of late, I am among many who are skeptical that we will see it anytime in 2017.

While a missed deadline is always a good bet with Tesla I don't think any of the recent delays will postpone the 3. Production and parts supply issues with the S and production/design tweaks to the X don't translate to the 3 in anyway that I can think of. The 3 will be an easier car to build than either the S or X, and they will have much more experience under their belt building cars by the time the 3 comes around.
 
While a missed deadline is always a good bet with Tesla I don't think any of the recent delays will postpone the 3. Production and parts supply issues with the S and production/design tweaks to the X don't translate to the 3 in anyway that I can think of. The 3 will be an easier car to build than either the S or X, and they will have much more experience under their belt building cars by the time the 3 comes around.

That same argument was used for the Model X and we know what happened to that timeline. Of course, we don't have an actual target yet for the Model 3 delivery as the statement is still "3 years". This seems to be a moving target. Since history seems to repeat itself, I think it is safe to say that once an actual date is mentioned, there will be delays following.
 
While a missed deadline is always a good bet with Tesla I don't think any of the recent delays will postpone the 3. Production and parts supply issues with the S and production/design tweaks to the X don't translate to the 3 in anyway that I can think of. The 3 will be an easier car to build than either the S or X, and they will have much more experience under their belt building cars by the time the 3 comes around.

as i said in another thread, it is not necessarily true that the 3 is 'easier to build' nor that it 'has no new tech' that would produce delays. in fact, it will be the first car to utilize the brand new batt coming out of the GF

this is before we get to the issue of delays from the very possible work overload of Service Centres and SpC from the order of magnitude greater 3's that Tesla is expecting to be on the road.