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No Plans to got to 2170 for S/X

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by sandpiper, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    • Informative x 1
  2. Reciprocity

    Reciprocity Active Member

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    It can only mean that the issue is supply. Given the ramp for Model 3 and TE solutions. It would mean they need every single cell they can make, even if they are 18650 from Japan/China. If they projected a glut, they would more then likely want to leverage that huge new factory as much as possible, this its kind of good news that they are not. I means demand is outpacing supply by a very good amount, because they could save a bundle on switching.. About $500M/Year at 100k cars.
     
    • Like x 1
  3. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    I agree. This is interesting in a couple of ways:

    1. It may be another way to inoculate the S/X from M3 inflicted Osborne disease. They don't want people holding off waiting for a new, bigger better battery.

    2. If the above is true, they would also be inclined to say that they've NOT got an interior upgrade in the offing and they're not including CCS charging - both of which have been widely circulated public rumors that Tesla is highly aware of. There are certainly people holding off for those reasons (me for example), and they are definitely aware of that too.

    But they haven't made such a statement. Sometimes what they DON'T say is as informative as what they DO say. :)
     
  4. bcampbelllds

    bcampbelllds Member

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    This makes me feel a bit better about our purchase this month. I was worried they would announce the new cells in July. We couldn't pass up our inventory MX because the discount was so high.
     
  5. Gwgan

    Gwgan Almost a wagon

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    #5 Gwgan, Jun 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
    This is classic Musk speak for not pre-anouncing products. How else can they get the S and X batteries over 100 kWh?
     
  6. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    Saw the tweet, and it definitely would be a factor for me not waiting for 2018! Now, only waiting for what's after July! :D
    Very strange that Elon stated that the change-over to 2170 for S/X would 'around the end of the year' or whatever the language was only a few months ago... May have just been a more-precise of production and assembly (and, as @sandpiper says, getting people to click on the Order button!).
     
  7. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    Pre-announcing? And Tesla has stated that they don't intent to offer batteries over 100kwh. But I don't believe them in that respect.
     
  8. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

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    "No new hardware!" Surprise, AP2 is out.
    "No [major] changes!" Surprise, nosecone is refreshed
    "No bigger battery!" Surprise, 100kwh!
    "No 2170 for Model S/X" Surprise, it's Margarita Monday!
     
    • Funny x 2
    • Like x 1
  9. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Hmm...did Elon actually state that or was it a case of wishful thinking going from rumor to "truth"?
     
  10. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    If the "hang on to your hats" rumor is to be believed and Model 3 ramp-up will be faster than previously assumed and the Gigafactory isn't at full capacity yet, it's not surprising if there won't be enough 2170 cells for the existing models until a later date. "No plans" doesn't mean never. The way I interpreted that tweet is that he's telling people interested in buying an S or X in the near-term not to hold off their purchases based on speculation there may be a cell switchover soon.
     
  11. BestRadar

    BestRadar Member

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    Be cautious... Its the MO for them to keep current sales rolling and then bam they will release them. I have heard it all before... Unlimited super charging ends... 12/31... Oops.. Super Charging ends 3/31... Oops Free Super Charging is back.... He will say anything to keep sales going and when they really slow.. Boom new 130k battery.
     
    • Like x 1
  12. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    I agree. And that makes me MORE suspicious about the interior. "No plans" is... lets say a bit deceptive. They clearly plan to do it, because to do otherwise would make no sense. The 2170 will be cheaper per kwh. But they likely have not have firmed up timing and are waiting to see when enough 2170 cell capacity is available to make it happen.

    But... the door is also wide open to say "no near term plans for new interior". And there is good reason to say it if it's true; short of a price cut, Tesla seems pulling out the stops to keep S sales going. But they're not saying it. Hmmm... :) And also no mention of CCS. Hmmm... :)
     
  13. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    I hear ya... no battery change... no pack over 100. Where do I sign up for the TUP? That's the Tesla Upgrade Program, like the IUP, the iPhone Upgrade Program, where you are guaranteed the new iPhone every year. :D
     
    • Like x 1
  14. azred

    azred Member

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    #14 azred, Jun 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
    When Elon looks for leakers, this would be the place. Solid info from obvious Tesla employees.
     
  15. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    He said it, I believe, in the last earnings call... they do sorta run together, but I'm pretty sure that's where it was. Let me check the transcript (for what that's worth...).

    ---
    Right, this was the stuff that was in that 'secret' call.... but it could all come from that one source with the blame placed on the garbled quote. Who knows...

    Report: Tesla To Transition To 2170 Cell In Model S & X By End Of Year
     
  16. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    It makes sense that Tesla will not invest the resources needed to engineer and build 2170 battery packs for the S/X lines - at least not for now - for a variety of reasons.

    However... An interesting side effect of this announcement...

    What about Supercharger V3 support?

    It seems highly unlikely Tesla would introduce ultrafast charging for the Model 3 - without introducing it in their more expensive Model S and X vehicles.

    If a battery pack change was needed to support SCV3 - then it could have made a lot of sense to develop a new 2170 battery pack for the S/X.

    If the S & X won't be getting new battery packs - could that mean the current battery packs can accommodate the faster charging???
     
  17. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Active Member

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    Tesla has a contract for 16850 cells from Panasonic until 2018. They have to wait for that contract to expire or have to pay for cells they won't use (not going to happen anytime soon).

    Elon isn't going to try and explain that in the 50 or so characters he had left in that tweet.

    So just take it that 16850 will be used in S/X until the old Panasonic contract is satisfied in 2018. After that at some point they may switch S/X to 2170 but that is more than a year away and due to the Osbourne effect and general internet sugar storms he isn't going to say wait for a couple of years and we'll change it over.
     
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  18. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Well-Known Member

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    Or it means there will be no "v3" Superchargers for some time.
     
  19. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    Pardon my ignorance for not knowing this but what's so special about the 2170 cells?

    Jeff
     
  20. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Member

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    There was a rumor started that the new cells had the ability to charge at a much faster rate than the 16850's.
     

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