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No replacement for the 90D

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Keith909man, Jun 6, 2017.

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  1. Keith909man

    Keith909man Member

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    IMG_4259.jpg I don't know how much those Tesla Chat guys really know but based on what he told me, there are no replacments for the 90D. Just two battery sizes now.
     
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  2. boonedocks

    boonedocks Member

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    That is exactly what the buzz has been saying
     
  3. oktane

    oktane Active Member

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    Expect a price drop
     
  4. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    ... and be disappointed.

    Tesla appear to be moving the Model S up in price to reduce overlap with the Model 3.

    Next up will likely be steady improvement in Model S trim and features to go toward justifying the higher price but this will be balanced against sales volumes.
     
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  5. gowthamn

    gowthamn Science

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    If model S is expensive people will buy model 3 which is bad for Tesla.
     
  6. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    I expect the 75 will be dropped next in favor of a new 85. They needed to get rid of the 90 first. The 90 and 75 shared the same battery module, each with 444 cells. The 75 had 14 modules and the 90 had 16. The 100 introduced a new module with more cells and now they are back to making two different modules. To economize they will want to use the same module on both and 14X modules the size of the 100 module would be around 87 KWh and will have a range close to that or better than the 90, which also was a little shy of 90 KWh. The new 87 KWh won't be as peppy though because with only 14X modules, the pack is only 350V instead of 400V.

    The new 85 will probably be cheaper than the 90 was since it will have 2 less modules and won't have quite as high performance.

    They may do some things to effectively make the car cheaper like roll autopilot into the base price of the car, or include all the premium package in the base price. The Model S and X are also the test beds for new technologies and there have been rumors floating around that a HUD was coming. That might become a standard feature.

    Tesla doesn't tend to drop prices very often, but they have been known to roll new things in for the same price, or only a small premium. Unless Model S sales really begin to suffer, that's what they will likely keep doing. The Model S is beginning to lose ground to the Model X and Model X sales will probably top Model S sales soon, especially in the US where SUVs are much more popular. The Model S has remained strong the last year in part from cannibalizing future Model 3 sales and because more conservative (cautious not politically conservative) buyers would rather buy the product that has been vetted than the latest and greatest with lots of bugs.

    When the 60 was dropped, I knew most of the Model 3 cannibalizing was done. They saw a big jump in sales to Model 3 reservation holders when they introduced the new 60, but as soon as those sales started dropping off, they went back to the 75 as the entry level. The 75 and 60 cost the same to make and Tesla was cutting the profit margin to the bone selling the 60. They offered a deal for 60 owners to upgrade to try and recoup some of those losses.

    The Model X has now become a lot less buggy, so more people are opting for it instead of the S. They can't afford to drop the S entirely for a while, but it might be retired in a few years. For now they are filling their production holes making service loaners, but they will max out there soon. Later this year we might see a change to the incentive program to have $1000 off a Model X and something like $3000 off a Model S.
     
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  7. habanero69

    habanero69 I Dont Need Cialis. I Drive an EV.

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    I see no reason to drop the S ever (realistically speaking). They would drop the S and only have the 3 for a sedan? Makes zero sense. The S will become the luxury car (from the inside) it might should have been if you listen to all those that compare the interior to everything from a VW to a i3 or Bolt. I personally think the S is great but, could use some more "high end" accoutrements which would further differentiate it from the 3. YMMV :)
     
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  8. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    I read an article somewhere a few weeks back that Toyota is seriously thinking about dropping some of their cars because they are seeing sedan sales drop off a cliff. It's becoming the least popular car type. Most people who bought sedans in the past are buying some kind of SUV/CUV/wagon these days.

    Tesla could remake the S into what the British call a shooting brake, more of a wagon type car. In reality the S is a wagon as far as cargo carrying goes, but it doesn't look like one. The general layout of the passenger/cargo compartment is just like my SO's old Outback and current Impreza hatchback, but it has a fastback hatch instead of a squared off back end. For aerodynamics Tesla won't want the squared off back end, but something with a bit more visibility out the back with a little bit higher roofline. But then there would be the criticism it's too much like the X.
     
  9. oktane

    oktane Active Member

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    You realize what you're saying makes zero sense right? NO ONE is going to buy the Model S if it is even MORE expensive. The Model S is an ancient design and Model 3 is around the corner. You are wrong, the price will drop soon. Don't buy any Model S until the price drops or unless you see substantial luxury interior or feature improvements!
     
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  10. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    to clarify my point, Tesla appear to be clearing out the lower cost variants of the Model S, to reduce overlap with higher spec'd variants of the Model 3 which will come in time, even if initial variants are limited.
    Therefore effectively they are increasing the entry point to Model S, not necessarily increasing the cost across the range, though the P100D is certainly more $$ than the P90D and this in turn more expensive than the P85D, so actually there is debatably a shift upwards in price too. Model S is not ancient, in many ways with full aluminium construction t is still ahead of the pack, but it is indeed getting towards the typical 7 year major refresh that the automotive sector follows.

    Of greater significance is that Musk/Tesla are determined that these cars should be profitable to manufacture, therefore demonstrating to the rest of the world and other automotive manufacturers in particular that EVs are viable. So no I don't agree we are going to see the Model S price drop soon, but as I said before I do see Tesla adding value steadily in months ahead to help justify its elevated price.
     
  11. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    I think Model S price is related to Tesla's need to basically survive until Model 3 can really pick up the tab. For that period, really, a completely different set of rules apply compared to where Model S might be priced and specced further down the road.

    They could lower (to help Model S sell and pay the bills) or even dramatically raise the price (when Model 3 is paying the bills) as that dynamic plays along.
     
  12. whttiger25

    whttiger25 Member

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    They literally raised the price on the 100D just 1.5 months ago, why would they then lower it?

    The average price of the model S has fluctuated a bit but trended slightly higher over the last 5 years, with corresponding upgrades in battery/range and trim/interior. I would expect that trend to continue.

    Car models never get cheaper. Manufacturers introduce new models at new price points but all cars gradually creep up in price over time. I certainly would NOT wait for a price decrease in the Model S. If anything you'll see continued trim and technology improvements, with a continuing gradual rising price.
     
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  13. gowthamn

    gowthamn Science

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    With the way the current Model S is, its not work twice the base price. Either they will improve the Model S or reduce the price. Else Model 3 will cannibalize the Model S heavily.
     
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  14. whttiger25

    whttiger25 Member

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    They will improve it. You've already been seeing it, they've improved the trim, made glass roof standard, improved standard seats, center console. We'll see more.
     
  15. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    the replacement is the 100d
     
  16. whttiger25

    whttiger25 Member

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    It really makes a lot of sense. Tesla now has 4 products in the sedan realm all fairly evenly spaced.

    3 - $35,000 (215 mi)
    75(D) - $69,500 ($74,500) (250-260 mi)
    100D - $97,500 (335 mi)
    P100D - $140,000 (FAST)
     
  17. oktane

    oktane Active Member

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    You make a good point here. If the price stays the same, the refinement has to go up significantly.
     
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  18. tpham07

    tpham07 Member

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    Well i mean they started charging for supercharging in the beginning of the year, now they've given it to everyone (who's bought a Model S/X before May) for life, so its not unheard of for Tesla to roll back and give people stuff.
     
  19. byan1232

    byan1232 Member

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    I'm curious now. I have a 90D. Let's say my battery breaks and needs to be replaced, will this mean I will have to pay extra for a 100D battery? Don't get me wrong, I would be happy to pay for a range upgrade!
     
  20. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    I believe they have refurbished battery packs for older cars. There are a number of people who have early cars that needed a battery replacement in the last year or so and I believe Tesla gives them a refurbished pack of the same capacity. In any case, the new pack is usually a similar rev level to the original one (maybe one generation newer).
     

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