TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

No tax credit good for Tesla?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by PhysicsGuy85, Nov 4, 2017.

Tags:
  1. PhysicsGuy85

    PhysicsGuy85 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Bozeman, MT
    Correct me if I’m wrong somehow, but would the EV tax credit going away actually be good for Tesla? They are about to max out anyways, and if it stuck around, it would then be a HUGE selling point for competitors EV’s like GM, Nissan, etc. since they will not hit their 200,000th EV for years to come.

    I have heard hearsay about Musk actually wanting the EV tax credit gone, but have never seen any evidence of this.
     
  2. azred

    azred Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,598
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    Hard to say. Assuming this move causes sales of EVs by competitors to drop, is that good for Tesla? Short term, sure but perhaps not long term. Isn’t is it better for Tesla long term if there is vibrant competition in EV market? Who knows.
     
  3. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    6,376
    Location:
    Visalia, CA
    • Like x 1
  4. ElecFan

    ElecFan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Individual owners tax credits are good for EV's. And if there is something Elon has communicated it is his passion for sustainable transport/energy-usage, so I expect him not to be too happy with the tax plans. He'll probably not be very surprised. It is after all Trump.
     
  5. PhysicsGuy85

    PhysicsGuy85 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Bozeman, MT
    The more I think about this I feel like it might actually be a good thing. Tesla, which obviously makes FAR superior EV’s than the competition, has almost exhausted their eligibility for the tax credit. Thus, if the tax credit goes away now, the EV market would be on even ground. Tesla has already achieved the goal of making EV’s viable, popular, and in demand. That’s not going away. Tesla might suffer though, if more “mainstream” buyers (not enthusiasts/fans like myself) are lured to the cheaper options like GM and Nissan because they can save $7500 from them. Thus it would perpetuate the sale of crappy EV’s, as well as worst case scenario cause major financial problems for Tesla with weak Model 3 sales.
     
  6. Petra

    Petra Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages:
    813
    Location:
    Palmdale, CA USA
    On the flip side, in the short term, the credit going away could cost Tesla double to triple digit millions in cancellations and reduced option sales...
     
  7. Plan B

    Plan B Active Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,450
    Location:
    Portland
    Are the sales for Model 3 weak?
     
  8. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    9,454
    Actually GM and Nissan aren't good examples. You actually picked the two non-Tesla makes that will have their 200,000th plug-in the soonest. GM approaching 150k sold already (keep in mind the Volt counts too). Nissan have also passed 100k.

    As for how much it helps or hurts Tesla, it really depends if any will make a serious Model 3 competitor in the premium EV market. So far there haven't really been any in the horizon.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. T34ME

    T34ME Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    2,278
    Location:
    Inland Empire
    I project about 20% in initial cancellations and 50% new reservations from people who consider the other brands without the tax credit.
     
  10. gregd

    gregd Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    2,165
    Location:
    CM98
    In my letter to the congress critters, I suggested that if they feel the need to get rid of the tax credit, that they should also get rid of the subsidies given to the oil companies. Level playing field is good for everyone. After all, that's what the $7,500 represents.

    I doubt they will listen, but it was worth the try.
     
    • Like x 2
  11. ratsbew

    ratsbew Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Messages:
    866
    I agree with you. Tesla has such huge demand for the Model 3 that the tax credit won't hurt them at all even if there are 100,000 cancellations. Once the Model 3 hits the road in numbers and the general public sees this beautiful and futuristic car there will be no turning back. These things will sell in the millions.
     
    • Like x 2
  12. d21mike

    d21mike Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    947
    Location:
    Torrance, CA 90503
    Could you provide more information on the oil company subsidies? I am pretty new to all of this and I have seen your type of statement quite a bit in these forums.
     
  13. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    20,712
    They were hoping to replace the tax credit with a point of sale incentive, but that bill died already.
     
  14. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    6,376
    Location:
    Visalia, CA
  15. shokunin

    shokunin P85 & M3

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,175
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    I think ending the tax credit would be good for Tesla. Those automakers have been sitting on the sidelines and predicting EV's to fail and Tesla to go bankrupt shouldn't benefit from the those who led the industry (Tesla, Nissan, and GM) and changed public perceptions about EV's in general.

    This will force all the other automakers to be price competitive instead of relying on the incentives to drive sales.
     
  16. gregd

    gregd Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    2,165
    Location:
    CM98
    ...and true to form, neglected to link the two. As for the GAO reference, I first read about it here. Haven't found a primary source as yet.
     
  17. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,001
    Location:
    Sydney
    A flat tax credit is much better for cheaper cars than for expensive cars, so the removal would affect Tesla less than it would affect makers of cheaper EVs.
    In the end though, removing the tax credit means fewer incentives for the fledgling EV market, which will slow it down.
     
  18. ElecFan

    ElecFan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    Netherlands

    At 3:00 there is an estimate of 2.3 billion dollars of subsidies to the oil and gas companies.
     
  19. flamingoezz

    flamingoezz Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2016
    Messages:
    342
    Location:
    NJ
    It wouldn't be be bad if it happened in 18 months. It would not be good at all if it happened next month. Tesla has 500K reservations lined up, and deals with part suppliers based on that demand. I'm sure cutting those numbers will hurt the pricing they are receiving from partners, and thus the profit they'll make on the car.


     
  20. ElecFan

    ElecFan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Tesla is all about stimulating EV's. Elon Musk has never been working his butt off only for the greater benefit of himself or his company. He wants the world to transition towards a healthier, more natural, more sustainable place.
    Supporting the oil and gas industry and taking away the benefits from the EV's is definitely not something he will see as the way to go forward in order to reach that sustainable future.
    And of course it isn't designed to be that. Rather it's a way to keep the powerful (ice, oil, supplying) companies in control. That is no wonder with Trump at the helm.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC