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NO TURN ON RED

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I live in the Northeast where in most counties and states it is acceptable to turn right on red after coming to a complete stop and checking for crossing traffic and pedestrians. Interestingly, where I live it's also legal to make a left turn on red if you are going from a one way street to another one way street.

FSD handles right on red just about as well as any other turn that involves a stop while checking for oncoming vehicles but it does not recognize NO TURN ON RED signs that are also common in the area. This has me thinking more broadly about how FSD handles these situations and regional differences in the law. Not that I would necessarily use it there but if I drove into NYC where there is no right on red, would FSD attempt to do so?

Any other situations you have run into where FSD is not interpreting regional rules or signs correctly?
 
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It does not do this yet.

Oddly, it seems to interpret a "right turn signal" as no turn on red, and it will NOT attempt to turn.

I interpret a red right arrow to mean no turn on red. Otherwise they would have just used a solid red light. But lots of people here ignore the red arrow and go anyway. Likewise plenty of people ignore the no turn on red sign too :D But for the most part, if you're first in line and you respect the red arrow or the sign, people behind you won't honk.
 
This has me thinking more broadly about how FSD handles these situations and regional differences in the law.
I'm sure every place where rights on red are legal has an occasional intersection where signage prohibits right on red, so Tesla obviously has to implement recognition of all common variants of the signs. I think it's inevitable that Tesla will have to test and update on a state-by-state basis to ensure it can follow individual state laws and signage. The plan may be to advance the generalized solution as far as possible, and then implement location-based variations.

In the interim, it would be nice to have switches in the interface to allow more granular control over behaviors. Just setting the level of aggressiveness is pretty inadequate. In my case I want the car to be aggressive about turns (if it's going, it needs to timely complete the turn to get out of the way), but I don't want it to be imprecise at stop signs (I want it to fully stop).

Also, we need to beg Tesla to give us the option to fully disengage FSD/autopilot if we do a steering intervention. The way it currently works is not intuitive, and I have an intervention at least once a week where I'm startled that TACC is still active.
 
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I interpret a red right arrow to mean no turn on red. Otherwise they would have just used a solid red light. But lots of people here ignore the red arrow and go anyway. Likewise plenty of people ignore the no turn on red sign too :D But for the most part, if you're first in line and you respect the red arrow or the sign, people behind you won't honk.
I talking about a normal stop light (red, yellow, green, no arrow) with a sign next to it that says "right turn signal." I agree a red arrow would mean don't turn. But a solid red makes it a standard intersection. Lacking a "no turn on red" sign, it's ok to turn.
 
I'm sure every place where rights on red are legal has an occasional intersection where signage prohibits right on red, so Tesla obviously has to implement recognition of all common variants of the signs. I think it's inevitable that Tesla will have to test and update on a state-by-state basis to ensure it can follow individual state laws and signage. The plan may be to advance the generalized solution as far as possible, and then implement location-based variations.
In this area, there are even time-of-day based right on red restrictions. For example right on red not allowed from 7AM-10AM and 2PM-4PM, all printed in a small font on the sign. These are found around schools.

They are probably going to have to tackle this in the map database rather than go for OCR of the sign. There will be a lot of rules that have yet to be put into FSD Beta.
 
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With all the communications that Tesla provides with respect to FSD, it's amazing that they didn't bother to tell us "the car doesn't read, nor obey, No Right On Red signs"
I'm sure other drivers were shocked (and frightened) like I was the first the car attempted to enter the intersection.
 
With all the communications that Tesla provides with respect to FSD, it's amazing that they didn't bother to tell us "the car doesn't read, nor obey, No Right On Red signs"
I'm sure other drivers were shocked (and frightened) like I was the first the car attempted to enter the intersection.
the fact that you are shocked shocks me. When I first saw such a sign I said to myself “hmmm, I wonder how it’s going to handle this” and was prepared to act as necessary. That’s test and evaluation.
if you were shocked you honestly shouldn’t be in the program.
 
Not to change the subject but how does it deal with streets one-way inbound in the AM, then switch to outbound-only in the PM? Or sometimes bus-only and sometimes anyone, depending on electronic signage? I suspect it's the same "not there yet" but some things you should probably know about ahead of time before anyone/thing gets confused.
 
Not to change the subject but how does it deal with streets one-way inbound in the AM, then switch to outbound-only in the PM? Or sometimes bus-only and sometimes anyone, depending on electronic signage? I suspect it's the same "not there yet" but some things you should probably know about ahead of time before anyone/thing gets confused.
It doesn't.
 
his has me thinking more broadly about how FSD handles these situations and regional differences in the law

Traditional code, added by humans is how these situations will be handled. Map data contains these types of details, so it will be important for Tesla to walk their "maps are a crutch" nonsense back and start utilizing more of the map data they already have on the vehicles. As for FSD itself, it doesn't handle anything posted on a sign, so I wouldn't expect that anytime in the reasonable future. You'll trade the vehicle in before they add support to read and comprehend the intent of signs. (speed limit and stop signs are already misinterpreted pretty frequently, as an example)
 
Except in New York City where right turn on red is not allowed unless posted otherwise.
Not being rude here as you bring up a great point on all the allowances vehicular autonomy need to contend with.

NYC isn’t a state. Turns on red are legal in all states, with a few exceptions for red arrows. NYC is a municipality with its own nuances.

It’s a lot to contend with and glad I get to Monday morning QB it on a forum versus trying to figure out how to make it work.

And that’s just in one country, and not the only country with Tesla market share.

ETA: I wrote a paper in college(in TX) and needed some civic data. At the time of my paper, there were 1,208 incorporated municipalities across 254 counties in the state. Each capable of their own traffic laws, across 50 states, across the 193 UN recognized countries, etc.
 
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So right turn on red OR red arrow as long as there is no “no right turn” sign? Makes sense.
No, you can't make a right (or left) turn on a red arrow unless there is a sign posted that allows it. The Uniform Vehicle Code and Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices state:

Vehicular traffic facing a steady RED ARROW signal indication shall not enter the intersection to
make the movement indicated by the arrow and, unless entering the intersection to make another
movement permitted by another signal indication, shall stop at a clearly marked stop line; but if
there is no stop line, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection; or if there is
no crosswalk, then before entering the intersection; and shall remain stopped until a signal
indication or other traffic control device permitting the movement indicated by such RED
ARROW is displayed.

A steady RED ARROW signal indication shall be displayed when it is intended to prohibit traffic,
except pedestrians directed by a pedestrian signal head, from entering the intersection or other
controlled area to make the indicated turn.
 
No, you can't make a right (or left) turn on a red arrow unless there is a sign posted that allows it. The Uniform Vehicle Code and Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices state:

Vehicular traffic facing a steady RED ARROW signal indication shall not enter the intersection to
make the movement indicated by the arrow and, unless entering the intersection to make another
movement permitted by another signal indication, shall stop at a clearly marked stop line; but if
there is no stop line, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection; or if there is
no crosswalk, then before entering the intersection; and shall remain stopped until a signal
indication or other traffic control device permitting the movement indicated by such RED
ARROW is displayed.

A steady RED ARROW signal indication shall be displayed when it is intended to prohibit traffic,
except pedestrians directed by a pedestrian signal head, from entering the intersection or other
controlled area to make the indicated turn.
"Under both Washington and Oregon law, you can turn right on a solid red arrow (the same as a solid red light) provided it's safe to do so, you come to a full stop, traffic is clear, and you stay out of the intersection as you wait, unless there's a sign posted that prohibits it. "


 
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