TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

No, you *can't* reserve 20 Model 3s...

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by MrBoylan, Apr 29, 2016.

  1. MrBoylan

    MrBoylan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Messages:
    840
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I hate to even mention this article as it's just another hit piece on Tesla (and I won't link to it), but one of the Seeking Alpha bears recently claimed to have successfully reserved 20 Model 3s, just by filling out the form multiple times. And he claims that this throws into question the whole "400,000 order" figure. What's a poor short to do but spread FUD?

    It turns out duplicate orders are cancelled, and, as Elon just confirmed, no individual can order more than 2.

    Elon Musk on Twitter

    Sorry, Anton. You'll have to do better than that.
     
    • Like x 3
  2. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,272
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    Those Seeking Alpha people are always out to get Tesla...
     
    • Like x 1
  3. FirstSea

    FirstSea Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    111
    Location:
    United States
    Indeed, SA is mostly full of Tesla haters, just like that one piece that claims the Gigafactory was still in design stages, even though there is a whole building already constructed.
     
    • Like x 1
  4. MrBoylan

    MrBoylan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Messages:
    840
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Yeah, there are a few Tesla fans on SA but it's mostly haters/shorts. BTW, Elon replied to my question twice. The first was that dupes are cancelled; the second tweet said:

    "@MrBoylan System scan detected only 0.2% of orders with same email and physical address. Those have been purged."

    So there was a legit hole in the reservation system that allowed people to submit the form multiple times but it looks like that didn't happen often. Anton missed his true calling in Web QA.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Funny x 1
  5. weak_pig

    weak_pig Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Island
    Tesla should punish Anton by purging all extra orders but retaining all his deposits.

    :cool:

    (I kid)
     
    • Like x 1
    • Funny x 1
  6. SebastianR

    SebastianR Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Messages:
    465
    Location:
    Denmark
    Oh, come on - that's what we call a legit hole in the reservation system? Dealing with 400k reservations including credit card transactions will likely have an error rate of a few % (people are amazingly stupid, when it comes to entering their names, their contact details and their credit card information). Then you always have those that try to trick the system e.g. entering valid credit card number but an invalid expiration date, a stolen CC number etc. etc. Any system will need to deal with that - if you try to do that through a responsive GUI or at a later stage is irrelevant in my mind. If as part of that some clown enters his information twice - who cares? The key point is, that most people ordered "just" one Model 3. That in itself is an indication that the demand is true and not fake.
     
    • Like x 3
  7. MrBoylan

    MrBoylan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Messages:
    840
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I'm not saying it's a big deal. I'm saying it was a flaw in the system that allows people to submit the form multiple times. I manage a web development team and I know a bug when I see one. This is a bug. Not a major bug, but a bug, nonetheless.

    But the fact that Anton turned this into a whole article speculating about the validity of the 400K reservation count and implying that institutional investors were using this to pump up the numbers is just a sign of how sad and desperate it must be to be a TSLA short these days.

    And hey, Seeking Alpha probably pays their writers based on traffic (CNET, Forbes and some other sites do), so just put "Tesla" in the title and you might earn enough to cover a couple of your shorts. True or not, if "Tesla" is in the title, it gets eyeballs and eyeballs mean ad impressions. And ad impressions mean $$$.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Helpful x 1
  8. Reeler

    Reeler 6 Years of Pure EV

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Messages:
    650
    I reserved 3 successfully, but I owned three Teslas too. I presume current owners can reserve equal to their ownership count.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  9. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,350
    Location:
    Rocklin, CA
    Pretty sure one of those got zapped in that .2%, unless at different addresses.
    Elon just gave the recipe for people who want more than 2 reservations (I can't imagine more than 5%) -- use different email address with the physical address.
     
    • Like x 1
  10. Drivin

    Drivin Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2016
    Messages:
    964
    Location:
    CA
    Well, if someone is smart enough and technical enough to figure out how to have 2 (or more) email addresses, they can order more than 2.

    But since everyone only has 1 email address, that would be very, very, very, unlikely.
     
    • Funny x 4
  11. M0DEL³

    M0DEL³ Dilluting Kool-Aid with Realism daily.

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Missouri
    Reality check ..... 19% <> 100%
     
  12. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,054
    I don't believe this is the same as the common double submission problem (for example what might happen if you click the submit button multiple times or use your browser back button). I would imagine the web form prevents that already.

    This is a case where Tesla didn't set the system to explicitly disallow submitting a new order with the same payment information. I wouldn't really call that a bug.
     
    • Like x 2
  13. zenmaster

    zenmaster Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    514
    Location:
    Atlanta
    It's definitely a minor bug. Using same phone #, credit card and email address, Anton's card was charged each time w/ confirmation. Further, after each order, the system sent him back to the same order form ready to take his next order. Trivial to prevent.
    21 days for refund processing though, so kind of an expensive test if after the credit card billing cycle.
     
    • Like x 1
  14. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,054
    #14 stopcrazypp, Apr 30, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2016
    The screen shot posted is just a page that shows the form was submitted and notes a confirmation email will be sent in 48 hours.

    Putting in multiple orders of the same item with the same payment information is something that isn't really a bug in a shopping system. There are legitimate reasons why you may want to order the same items multiple times. For example you may have put in an order and decided you want more. Or some systems have a limit per order (for example Walmart.com) and you just put in another order to get the amount you want (I have done this before).

    It is during order processing that suspicious orders can be flagged and caught. I don't believe his orders have gotten to that point yet (unclear if he had 10 confirmation emails and if he has 20 reservation numbers in his myTesla).

    This also is a deposit, not really an order, so Tesla really has until delivery of the vehicle to catch people trying to circumvent the system.

    Sidepoint: was there ever a reported case of anyone getting more than 2 reservation numbers in their MyTesla for the Model 3?
     
    • Like x 1
  15. zenmaster

    zenmaster Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    514
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Presumably they would like to do this before production rather than delivery!
     
    • Like x 1
  16. Ohms Andwatts

    Ohms Andwatts Unknown Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    WA
    The order list has not been purged of those with more than two model 3s ordered from the same email address and credit card. The ordering system failed to provide adequate confirmation that the first order went through, so I ordered a second time and was only slightly more assured that my order went through. When I checked my credit card, it showed $4000 being held. When the card charges went through, the date was not Mar 31 but April 2. I called Tesla and the person I spoke to believed as I did that maybe you can just get in line again.

    When Elon stated in early April that each person can only order 2, I sent email to reservations and never got a response. There was a conflict in what was being stated and what the evidence indicates. So now that the claim of 20 orders resulted in a tweet by Elon that the order list has been purged of all multiple orders from the same email address, and I still have 4 RN's on My Tesla and a $4000 charge on my credit card, I decided I needed to know for sure whether I would be able to actually get four cars or would have two canceled in two years. But more important is the conflict between what My Tesla shows and what Elon tweeted.

    So I just got off the phone with Tesla and the representative could not provide clarity except to state that others have called in with my same question. That means there really is a problem and a concern by other owners or those with multiple reservations.

    I only own one S so I certainly am not entitled to order more than two model 3s, unless owners are exempt from the two car limit. Who knows? That may be the easy way out for Tesla. But the representative said this issue will be taken up with those who can make a decision on Monday and he expects there will be an major email sent out to all. I guess we shall see.
    .
     
    • Informative x 2
  17. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,054
    Yeah, I misspoke, probably confirmation is the right time. Basically before the order is really processed.
     
  18. Reeler

    Reeler 6 Years of Pure EV

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Messages:
    650
    Didn't Elon say at one point that current owners could get to the front of the line for each current car that they own? I ordered 3 because I have 3 currently.
     
    • Like x 1
  19. MrBoylan

    MrBoylan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Messages:
    840
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Can you log into your "My Tesla" page and see how many reservations are listed? If more than two, can you post a screen shot (fuzz out any personal or private information)?

    From what Elon said, it seems like your 3rd and 4th order should only have survived if you provided a different physical address or different e-mail address at order time. If your "My Tesla" page shows two reservations, then I'd say Tesla owes you $2K. IF it shows 4, and you want 4, then hang tight and see what happens!

    -CB
     
    • Like x 1
  20. EinSV

    EinSV Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2016
    Messages:
    884
    Location:
    NorCal
    It goes without saying, but thank you for the public service, @MrBoylan. Well done!
     
    • Like x 2

Share This Page