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NOA lane changing into concrete barrier / walls?

Sep 24, 2015
836
725
San Diego (Oceanside)
The thing is you can see the sensors detecting a wall or obstruction. The car should not try to merge into it... It does not even matter what the lane marking is, it is detecting a wall.

Perhaps there is a problem with one of my sensors.

Software version 2019.8.5.3aaa23d
Did it actually start moving toward the barrier or just suggest a lane change? was the line red? where on 15N?
 

Glamisduner

Active Member
Aug 2, 2017
3,582
2,386
Escondido, CA
Did it actually start moving toward the barrier or just suggest a lane change? was the line red? where on 15N?
All good questions I don't have good answers too, Somwhere between the 8 and Escondido. I'll give it another go monday. I don't know what I will wait to see if it veers though because the lane marker is right against the wall. If it started to veer, It wouldn't take long to hit the wall. I used it on my drive to LA, and well it did better but I found it was a bit too much with all the road debris on those highways. It still gets in the wrong lane to change highways too, but I'm not sure if that is teslas fault or that the car gets improper directions from the routing software they are using.

The lane was not red though hah, we all know teslas love to aim for red. It was painted with that new reflective paint, but the carpool lane barriers are literally right against it.

I didn't make this post to bash AP, just to be sure people are aware. I am a bit surprised they would release NOA with auto lane change in it's current state though.

The reason I was thinking their might be something wrong with my car was due to the blind spot detection limited error I received as I pulled out of the work parking lot, not just because of software issues.
 

Kilotango74

Active Member
Apr 2, 2019
1,350
1,278
Palmdale, CA
I didn't make this post to bash AP, just to be sure people are aware. I am a bit surprised they would release NOA with auto lane change in it's current state though
That’s my only concern with Anything related to autonomous driving.....it’s not ready. But Tesla goes ahead and releases it thinking it’s ok to do so as long g as they label it “beta”. People have gotten hurt and will continue to do so because they don’t understand the limitations.
 

SR22pilot

Member
Jun 16, 2014
720
1,126
Georgia
Yeah like reading the owners manual is going to happen. Also no one else calls their system something as misleading as autopilot. The name implies something it isnt. What other systems for that matter do auto lanes changes? Maybe cadallic’s system but I don’t think there are very many. Most are just cruise control that maintains distance.
Maybe it does to some people. As a pilot, AP implies holding altitude and course. That's it. AP in a plane avoids nothing and requires constant attention. Advanced flight management systems also change altitude and can do Class 3 ILS IF the airport supports it. TCAS will avoid other aircraft but that is separate from AP.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
13,101
21,601
NC
That’s my only concern with Anything related to autonomous driving.....it’s not ready. But Tesla goes ahead and releases it thinking it’s ok to do so as long g as they label it “beta”. People have gotten hurt and will continue to do so because they don’t understand the limitations.


Again Tesla is super clear everywhere in their documentation and on-screen that AP is not autonomous driving

If idiots want to ignore literally every statement and warning about a product and then be SHOCKED it only does what the warnings told them it did, that's on them, not Tesla.
 
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M3BlueGeorgia

Active Member
Dec 10, 2018
1,400
1,283
Atlanta, GA
In my limited experience this seems to be the most glaring and consistent problem of AP/EAP
I find N-on-A generally fixes these.
... because it knows it has to stay on the road it can make the correct decision when faced with a lane split.
Plain autopilot doesn't know which way to go when faced with a lane split, unless the off-ramp has proper dotted lines to give it the big hint which to choose. Some States are better than others about adding dotted lines at highway exits.
 

duanra

Active Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,310
810
Montreal
Maybe it does to some people. As a pilot, AP implies holding altitude and course. That's it. AP in a plane avoids nothing and requires constant attention. Advanced flight management systems also change altitude and can do Class 3 ILS IF the airport supports it. TCAS will avoid other aircraft but that is separate from AP.
A plane AP is a lot more reliable. It can land the plane and you don't have to keep your hand on the control all the time. It has to be monitored since in some rare case, it eould screw up.
Granted the road is a lot more challenging than airspace.
A beta plane AP would never be accepted in commercial operation.
 

cybergates

Member
Feb 14, 2017
545
240
So Cal
Twice today my car signaled and started to turn into a Concrete wall in the carpool lane on the 15 North. I of course cancelled it but damn, this isn't good!

I have been testing the Auto lane change feature but Im going to have to turn it off.

I did get a warning when I got in the car (It quickly went away though) that blind spot detection was limited (what causes this? the cameras were all clear when i checked them). It seemed to be detecting the barrier using it's sensors though, until it wasn't, and it wanted to turn into the wall, twice.

Last time I had the warning the car was s but covered in condensation, but that usually goes away pretty quick.

can you give us socal peeps the location for 1-15 (N/S which exit). Also did you report by asking the navigation "report a problem with Autopilot" etc? Also 8.5 or 8.6 and which car 3/s?
 

cybergates

Member
Feb 14, 2017
545
240
So Cal
Happened to me also by the Honolulu Airport. My M3 on NOA tried slamming me into our zipper lane concrete barrier which is closed in the afternoon. Luckily I was paying attention at the time. Who do we report this dangerous activity to? Is this a Google or Tesla problem?

give the command "report a problem with.....(Autopilot/NOA)" when it occurs
 
Sep 24, 2015
836
725
San Diego (Oceanside)
All good questions I don't have good answers too, Somwhere between the 8 and Escondido. I'll give it another go monday. I don't know what I will wait to see if it veers though because the lane marker is right against the wall. If it started to veer, It wouldn't take long to hit the wall. I used it on my drive to LA, and well it did better but I found it was a bit too much with all the road debris on those highways. It still gets in the wrong lane to change highways too, but I'm not sure if that is teslas fault or that the car gets improper directions from the routing software they are using.

The lane was not red though hah, we all know teslas love to aim for red. It was painted with that new reflective paint, but the carpool lane barriers are literally right against it.

I didn't make this post to bash AP, just to be sure people are aware. I am a bit surprised they would release NOA with auto lane change in it's current state though.

The reason I was thinking their might be something wrong with my car was due to the blind spot detection limited error I received as I pulled out of the work parking lot, not just because of software issues.
I meant the lane marking in the display. was it red? I've used NOA with auto lane change only minimally and NOA with lane change confirmation a bit more. The latter would suggest lane change based on where you are and ask for confirmation regardless if there was a car next to you. If you confirm it, it'll wait until the lane is clear (i.e. not showing a red line). I'm wondering if NOA wanted to change lanes up ahead and was providing notification that it will move when able, not that it was going to move immediately hence why I asked if the car actually attempted to move left. Sometimes those lanes widen and merge such as near NCF where there's an entrance to the freeway directly into the carpool lane that is 3 lanes temporarily when merges to two from the left.

Regardless, it shouldn't change lanes into a barrier (Obviously). It either thought there is/will be a lane to your left soon or it is mapping error. With the latter, it should detect the object and cancel the lane change.

The one place on 15N with carpool that would make me nervous on AP is that wacky left lane exit for Hale Ave.
 
B

banned-66611

Guest
mine does this too, in fact it tries to lane change over four solid white lines into stopped traffic once. But since it does not handle the hov freeway interchange to the next highway, I assume that if it didn't put you into the hov lane Via a dedicated entrance ramp it might not know your on it.

This is going to get someone killed.

Talk about irresponsible, releasing beta quality crapware like this onto public roads. Whoever made that decision should be in jail.
 
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duanra

Active Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,310
810
Montreal
I am not sure it will kill people since drivers are warned about tur shortcomings of the system. Also by driving around with AP, you realise sooner than later that the system is not reliable. However I think one shouldn't buy someting still in beta stage. Not worth the money.
 
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Kilotango74

Active Member
Apr 2, 2019
1,350
1,278
Palmdale, CA
Maybe it does to some people. As a pilot, AP implies holding altitude and course. That's it. AP in a plane avoids nothing and requires constant attention. Advanced flight management systems also change altitude and can do Class 3 ILS IF the airport supports it. TCAS will avoid other aircraft but that is separate from AP.
Yeah I get it. I have my license as as well and just retired from a 26 year career with the Navy as an Avionics tech. The issue is most people don’t understand the limitations
 

Kilotango74

Active Member
Apr 2, 2019
1,350
1,278
Palmdale, CA
A plane AP is a lot more reliable. It can land the plane and you don't have to keep your hand on the control all the time. It has to be monitored since in some rare case, it eould screw up.
Granted the road is a lot more challenging than airspace.
A beta plane AP would never be accepted in commercial operation.
Well that depends on the level of AP your aircraft has. Systems on the F-18 can put you on the deck of a carrier but most systems are just enough to hold altitude and heading.
 

Kilotango74

Active Member
Apr 2, 2019
1,350
1,278
Palmdale, CA
Again Tesla is super clear everywhere in their documentation and on-screen that AP is not autonomous driving

If idiots want to ignore literally every statement and warning about a product and then be SHOCKED it only does what the warnings told them it did, that's on them, not Tesla.
That’s great but a lot of people do not read their owners manual. Besides that this post started by someone saying their AP almost drove them into a concrete barrier. Follow that by posts of people chiming in that they have seen that as well and it’s “normal”. No system that operates like that should be pushed out to the general masses. The car absolutely should be made so that even all the “idiots” as you so eloquently put it, should be able to operate it with ease and not kill themselves or anyone else.
 
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Kilotango74

Active Member
Apr 2, 2019
1,350
1,278
Palmdale, CA
I find N-on-A generally fixes these.
... because it knows it has to stay on the road it can make the correct decision when faced with a lane split.
Plain autopilot doesn't know which way to go when faced with a lane split, unless the off-ramp has proper dotted lines to give it the big hint which to choose. Some States are better than others about adding dotted lines at highway exits.
Great so we have to pay more for the upgraded system to ensure our car doesn’t inadvertently drive us into a concrete barrier? Nice. Personally I think the Nav on AP should be the standard and summon and FSD should be the upgrade.
 

M3BlueGeorgia

Active Member
Dec 10, 2018
1,400
1,283
Atlanta, GA
Great so we have to pay more for the upgraded system to ensure our car doesn’t inadvertently drive us into a concrete barrier? Nice. Personally I think the Nav on AP should be the standard and summon and FSD should be the upgrade.

There's a desirable third option, which is to lobby your State or County highway department to ensure exits are properly marked.

Oh, and don't use auto-steer in construction zones, or be super careful if you do so and are in the extreme left or right lane.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,441
8,614
Visalia, CA
...This is going to get someone killed.

Talk about irresponsible, releasing beta quality crapware like this onto public roads. Whoever made that decision should be in jail.

It's not something hypothecal in future.

Tesla drivers already died with Autopilot related crashes.

The findings found that those drivers did not steer nor brake to avoid accidents which were exactly what a licensed driver is required to do.

Each new driver profile in a Tesla would prompt a disclosure about the nature of its beta system and if the driver clicks decline, they would not have to use the system.

Each time a driver activates Autopilot, it clearly reminds to keep hands on steering wheel.

Drivers are adults and it takes education to get a driver license.

They are also adults who are responsible for what they are buying because it costs them quite a lot of money.

Despite Tesla's limitations, there are fewer Autopilot accidents than non-Autopilot ones and there are fewer Autopilot accidents than the general population driving accidents.

Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

Based on factual data, it is unethical or even criminal to prohibit Tesla Autopilot.
 

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