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NOA lane changing into concrete barrier / walls?

Daniel in SD

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2018
6,872
9,741
San Diego
Maybe it's time to switch insurance.
Maybe! It seems like liability insurance should correlate pretty well with at fault accident rate since it only covers other vehicles. You're paying half what you were with the Prius which is definitely surprising. I don't think my liability insurance changed much.
 

Glamisduner

Active Member
Aug 2, 2017
3,582
2,125
Escondido, CA
Just a heads up, I will run NOA with auto lane change tonight. It almost always changes to the passing lane when in the HOV lane. It seems it would rather be next to the barrier than in the entry/exit lane (it's 2 lanes on the way home).

Yes I did use the "report a bug" command the first time, am I supposed to use "report a problem" instead?

If it happens again tonight I "might" allow to leave the blinker on to see what happens. I will be ready to jerk the wheel / cancel out though. Depends on it there are other people around or not.
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,412
12,656
San Diego
Maybe it's time to switch insurance.

My current premium is:

6Ac9B6e.jpg


Which is very much comparable to my 2006 Toyota Prius premium in 2016. That car was 10 years old at that time:

13lPg97.jpg

Do you still have Wawanesa? I need to do some insurance shopping (I knew this already but wanted to delay it until the next renewal); my 6-month premium (it does apply to two drivers though which makes a big difference) for the Model 3 Performance is about $900 (with Mercury). They do know that I paid $73k for the car, which is taken into account in the rate. Since you're in San Diego I'd like to get your rates (I have a perfect driving record). EDIT: No you're not. Glanced over and must have picked up a wrong city at some point.
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,412
12,656
San Diego
Just a heads up, I will run NOA with auto lane change tonight. It almost always changes to the passing lane when in the HOV lane. It seems it would rather be next to the barrier than in the entry/exit lane (it's 2 lanes on the way home).

Yes I did use the "report a bug" command the first time, am I supposed to use "report a problem" instead?

If it happens again tonight I "might" allow to leave the blinker on to see what happens. I will be ready to jerk the wheel / cancel out though. Depends on it there are other people around or not.

You may have already answered this (I saw it asked above), but was this merging with the barrier incident on a section of road with the moveable jersey barrier? I wonder if the NN learned from prior drivers that there was another lane to the left (which doesn't exist at some times of day). Presumably you were going home in rush hour, so there were two lanes at that point, so it doesn't really explain it, but just wondering.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,412
12,656
San Diego
MIT paper above disputes Waymo's myth because its data shows that Tesla Autopilot drivers are more vigilant than most people would give them the credit.

That's not really what this paper says, nor would the authors agree with your summary. It's a study meant to explore the engagement level of drivers under a very specific set of circumstances. The authors would say "it depends". Their specific study is a study of 21 specially equipped, HW1/2 Tesla vehicles.

FSD email from Tesla (April 5, 2019)

I actually think the authors would generally agree with Waymo's assessment that level 3 systems could be very dangerous, and possibly extremely dangerous if that same level 3 system was forced to be used as a level 2 system.

I suggest reading the paper in its entirety. I did at the end of last week, and I found it very interesting. Perhaps because the authors validated a lot of the concerns I have, but still...
 
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Glamisduner

Active Member
Aug 2, 2017
3,582
2,125
Escondido, CA
You may have already answered this (I saw it asked above), but was this merging with the barrier incident on a section of road with the moveable jersey barrier? I wonder if the NN learned from prior drivers that there was another lane to the left (which doesn't exist at some times of day). Presumably you were going home in rush hour, so there were two lanes at that point, so it doesn't really explain it, but just wondering.
Yes, and 2 lanes at the time. NOA seems to choose the left lane every time. It was after rush hour, around 8:00.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,412
12,656
San Diego
Yes, and 2 lanes at the time. NOA seems to choose the left lane every time. It was after rush hour, around 8:00.

Maybe it's making a suggestion about how many northbound lanes should exist at rush hour? ;) Trying to create a third northbound lane? Maybe it thought it could blaze a trail.

I kind of wonder how Tesla deals with this in the case (not your case) where there is only one lane when there is often two (where other drivers may have previously driven in the leftmost lane (which no longer exists) at another time of day)? That's interesting contradictory input to the NN.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,412
12,656
San Diego
No, I am in Visalia which is a small town with a perk of lower insurance rate for lower traffic flow.

Oops. Not sure how I got that impression - I glanced over and saw San Diego but obviously was looking at another user - you have a giant Visalia sign in your picture! Multiple San Diego users commenting here lately... Still, I guess I'll check out Wawanesa as well.

In any case it's possible that this rate is an outlier. It looks like you are covering two drivers with this rate though (it's roughly half the rate for a single driver, when I priced it out - I would only be paying $500 if it were just me (even though my wife never drive the vehicle)). So it's pretty good!
 
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Big-T

Member
Sep 14, 2015
529
469
Seattle, WA
I've been using the NOA, but haven't turned out the auto lane changes. I have noticed multiple times though where it wants to do an auto lane change for no apparent reason - since I didn't turn on the auto lane change feature I just ignore the request - but during very obvious times where it shouldn't (for example it always wants me to turn onto a bus only lane in one specific section every day) I submit a bug report each time it happens.
 

Zero CO2

a long term goal
Supporting Member
Apr 24, 2017
909
4,254
A Mountain
That's right, it is in beta mode. So it brings up the question : Should a beta product be sold ? Specially now that you don't have the choice to buy it.
you have a lot of choices just not Tesla's :rolleyes:....
the way to improve the machine learning is to have a lot of machines learning ... so yes it should and has been available i think since 2015 with a lot less functionality .. but many folks ... myself included were willing to pay for early adaption ... They pay engineers to create the code so we should pay for the feature

You need to understand the risks .. that is the key here....M3 may not be ready for mass market :(
 

duanra

Active Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,299
742
Montreal
you have a lot of choices just not Tesla's :rolleyes:....
the way to improve the machine learning is to have a lot of machines learning ... so yes it should and has been available i think since 2015 with a lot less functionality .. but many folks ... myself included were willing to pay for early adaption ... They pay engineers to create the code so we should pay for the feature

You need to understand the risks .. that is the key here....M3 may not be ready for mass market :(
I agree that we should pay for the feature...once it is ready ! Or else you are a glorified guinea pig.
 

SR22pilot

Member
Jun 16, 2014
720
1,112
Georgia
I agree that we should pay for the feature...once it is ready ! Or else you are a glorified guinea pig.

Then don't buy it. Hold off. If it is bundled with the car then don't use it and value the car based on not using AP. Plenty of people have bought cars with cruise control and never used it. Many have bought cars with Sirius/XM and not used that.

I am glad I did purchase AP. I want to support the development. Tesla has enough financial issues without giving away software. Their alternative would be to not develop AP at all. Despite the work of Waymo, I doubt other manufacturers would be pushing autonomous driving if not for Tesla. I enjoy the present capabilities and find them helpful in some situations.
 

duanra

Active Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,299
742
Montreal
Then don't buy it. Hold off. If it is bundled with the car then don't use it and value the car based on not using AP. Plenty of people have bought cars with cruise control and never used it. Many have bought cars with Sirius/XM and not used that.

I am glad I did purchase AP. I want to support the development. Tesla has enough financial issues without giving away software. Their alternative would be to not develop AP at all. Despite the work of Waymo, I doubt other manufacturers would be pushing autonomous driving if not for Tesla. I enjoy the present capabilities and find them helpful in some situations.
You're right, and i apologize for my comment about guinea pig. But since you're in aviation, would you accept s tx not rrliable ? An ils receiver or a gps not operating constantly thecway iy should in imc ? Now it sort of make sense that Tesla is increasing the price as the product improves. It gives an advantage for the folks who bought it cheaper early.
 

SR22pilot

Member
Jun 16, 2014
720
1,112
Georgia
You're right, and i apologize for my comment about guinea pig. But since you're in aviation, would you accept s tx not rrliable ? An ils receiver or a gps not operating constantly thecway iy should in imc ? Now it sort of make sense that Tesla is increasing the price as the product improves. It gives an advantage for the folks who bought it cheaper early.
Quick answer "Of course not" but a poor example. What if I had something that routed the plane around weather in an optimized way except sometimes it goofed? As long as it was easy to correct I would enjoy it but watch over it. Actually, here is a real world aviation case. I have Skywatch which shows aircraft in the area. However, it depends on transponders in the other aircraft. I was in the pattern at Pell City when a yellow Cub cut in front. He did a straight in. No calls or anything. He was wrong for not entering the pattern. However, a Cub has no electrical systems so I am guessing no radio and no transponder (smart owners use battery systems). Do I throw Skywatch out because it didn't detect the Cub and give a warning or do I use Skywatch as a backup to my eyes? I prefer the latter.
 
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