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NOA lane changing into concrete barrier / walls?

M109Rider

Active Member
Apr 8, 2018
1,598
1,649
Kitchener, Ontario
That's right, it is in beta mode. So it brings up the question : Should a beta product be sold ? Specially now that you don't have the choice to buy it.

I assume you believe Auto makers, and many other industries, should not release anything until its perfect ?

You learned to walk, while in beta mode.:)
The first Model T was beta.
First electric car was beta
The first passenger flight was beta.

All of these things start somewhere and need to be tested and improved. They have glitches and accidents along the way.
That’s how we improve.
If you’re in control, you can likely prevent the accident part.

You realize it isn’t really too realistic to suggest no one release a beta until perfect. ...
 

Glamisduner

Active Member
Aug 2, 2017
3,582
2,125
Escondido, CA
I didn't have any NOA issues last night. It did say it was going to change lanes left once, but it was due to a carpool lane onramp on the left side and the upcoming lane change went away before the signal did.

Only other issue was it might have veered into the barrier (swerved over the line) on a sharper turn that it has always made in the past without issue, but that's just an Autopilot issue not NOA. It might have made it but I was going to risk it, and it wasn't taking the turn at cleanly as usual.
 
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duanra

Active Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,301
742
Montreal
I assume you believe Auto makers, and many other industries, should not release anything until its perfect ?

You learned to walk, while in beta mode.:)
The first Model T was beta.
First electric car was beta
The first passenger flight was beta.

All of these things start somewhere and need to be tested and improved. They have glitches and accidents along the way.
That’s how we improve.
If you’re in control, you can likely prevent the accident part.

You realize it isn’t really too realistic to suggest no one release a beta until perfect. ...
I understand that. However, again, the question is, who should pay for the training ?
 

duanra

Active Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,301
742
Montreal
Quick answer "Of course not" but a poor example. What if I had something that routed the plane around weather in an optimized way except sometimes it goofed? As long as it was easy to correct I would enjoy it but watch over it. Actually, here is a real world aviation case. I have Skywatch which shows aircraft in the area. However, it depends on transponders in the other aircraft. I was in the pattern at Pell City when a yellow Cub cut in front. He did a straight in. No calls or anything. He was wrong for not entering the pattern. However, a Cub has no electrical systems so I am guessing no radio and no transponder (smart owners use battery systems). Do I throw Skywatch out because it didn't detect the Cub and give a warning or do I use Skywatch as a backup to my eyes? I prefer the latter.
Well, I don't think the example is appropriate.
An FMS will not intercept the wrong ILS neither the wrong track. If something goes wrong, you'll have a message advising you. I am not saying it is perfect. However, in aviation, things operate at a higher level of reliability, and nothing is released in beta mode. As far as I know, when a software company releases a software im beta mode, you don't have to pay for it.
And a computer software will not jeopardize your life, you may only waste some times.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
12,808
18,936
NC
As far as I know, when a software company releases a software im beta mode, you don't have to pay for it.

Not sure where you get this idea?

millions of copies of various video games for example have been sold for money in some form of "not finished yet" (often VERY not finished yet) to solicit feedback and also raise funds for further development.
 

duanra

Active Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,301
742
Montreal
Not sure where you get this idea?

millions of copies of various video games for example have been sold for money in some form of "not finished yet" (often VERY not finished yet) to solicit feedback and also raise funds for further development.
Ok, my bad if i am wrong but at least they will not drive you in a wall.
 

SR22pilot

Member
Jun 16, 2014
720
1,112
Georgia
Well, I don't think the example is appropriate.
An FMS will not intercept the wrong ILS neither the wrong track. If something goes wrong, you'll have a message advising you. I am not saying it is perfect. However, in aviation, things operate at a higher level of reliability, and nothing is released in beta mode. As far as I know, when a software company releases a software im beta mode, you don't have to pay for it.
And a computer software will not jeopardize your life, you may only waste some times.
Look at the Skywatch example again. Altitude is generally accurate. Heading can be more of a suggestion with aircraft sometimes jumping form left to right side of the aircraft. Distance is no where near as accurate as altitude. Hence avoidance is best done via and altitude change. FYI, distance is determined by pinging the other craft's transponder and doing a time of flight calculation based on when the reply is received. Aircraft without transponders are invisible.
 

duanra

Active Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,301
742
Montreal
Look at the Skywatch example again. Altitude is generally accurate. Heading can be more of a suggestion with aircraft sometimes jumping form left to right side of the aircraft. Distance is no where near as accurate as altitude. Hence avoidance is best done via and altitude change. FYI, distance is determined by pinging the other craft's transponder and doing a time of flight calculation based on when the reply is received. Aircraft without transponders are invisible.
In the case of the TCAS the resolution advisory are altitude only and it takes precedence over ATC, this is how reliable it is. So there is no surprise. It seems that the AP of the car is causing surprises to the user, even operated within limits.
Although I'd love to continue comparing automation in both planes and cars (i enjoy this discussion), I'll stop here cause I am afraid we are drifting of topic.
Thank you for your input though.
 

M109Rider

Active Member
Apr 8, 2018
1,598
1,649
Kitchener, Ontario
I understand that. However, again, the question is, who should pay for the training ?

You think all companies with a new product should pay each user for beta testing ?

If we were all about the “Me Me Me” mentality. None of us would have much in the way of new tech anymore.

There is very little sense of community anymore is there.
Guys like Musk are rare, because most are all about take and no give.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,428
12,679
San Diego
No, but should we pay for the item before it is ready ? I am willing to help for free, but I am not paying to help.
But it is just me me me :)

You should definitely not pay for the item, if it is not worth it to you in current form. The value of AP is not the same for everyone. For anticipated form, that's also a judgement call on your part.
 

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