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Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 Snow Tire Report

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Does anybody else find this bizarre? I have always gone to third-party shops for rims and tires on other cars... I don't think I've ever purchased tires from a dealer... and had no such nonsense about waivers and questions over whether they will or will not work on a car with them. Obviously I don't expect them to provide warranty on after-market tires or rims. And FWIW, I have not received any grief whatsoever from Tesla over my summer Rial Lugano rims nor my winter Nokian tires. Just sayin'.

I can understand Tesla's thinking, given the unpredictable consequences of using non-standard size wheels and tires. This could result in something as simple as a tire rubbing a fender when making sharp turns, to a bizarre handling anomaly. Tesla can't be expected to track all of these incompatibilities or to offer free changeovers if problems arise. To me, it makes sense that untested tires and wheels would be used at the customer's risk. I would imagine that many high-performance car brands have a similar policy; they just may not make you put it in writing up front.
 
The R2's are that much better than the Pirellis? I have the Pirellis and they were quite good in the the snow in upstate NY. Can't imagine how much better they can get - I was unstoppable in a foot of snow. Good to know, will change to the R2's when the Pirellis wear out or if I am unsatisfied.
 
The R2's are that much better than the Pirellis? I have the Pirellis and they were quite good in the the snow in upstate NY. Can't imagine how much better they can get - I was unstoppable in a foot of snow. Good to know, will change to the R2's when the Pirellis wear out or if I am unsatisfied.

They should be even better in snow and ice but likely worse on dry and wet pavement.
 
The R2's are that much better than the Pirellis? I have the Pirellis and they were quite good in the the snow in upstate NY. Can't imagine how much better they can get - I was unstoppable in a foot of snow. Good to know, will change to the R2's when the Pirellis wear out or if I am unsatisfied.

I am very glad to hear of your experience with the Pirellis, ROCDOC. I've been worried about snow traction with the Pirellis since reading how everyone (else) here seems to feel about them as compared to the Hakkas. I have a pretty steep driveway, and occasionally need to get up it before it has been plowed. My Acura with front wheel drive and four good snow tires does it in reasonably snowy conditions, so I was hoping the P85D would be able to as well. If you were happy with the Pirellis, I imagine with AWD I should be happy too. So thanks!
 
I am very glad to hear of your experience with the Pirellis, ROCDOC. I've been worried about snow traction with the Pirellis since reading how everyone (else) here seems to feel about them as compared to the Hakkas. I have a pretty steep driveway, and occasionally need to get up it before it has been plowed. My Acura with front wheel drive and four good snow tires does it in reasonably snowy conditions, so I was hoping the P85D would be able to as well. If you were happy with the Pirellis, I imagine with AWD I should be happy too. So thanks!

Sorry to burst your bubble but the Pirellis and the Hakkas can't be compared. Now with your AWD you might be fine with the Pirellis but experience from two winters here in Norway show that those two tires belong to different classes of tires (the Hakkas are Nordic winter tires while the Pirellis are continental winter tires). One guy here in Norway called them "Italian sledges" :)
 
Sorry to burst your bubble but the Pirellis and the Hakkas can't be compared. Now with your AWD you might be fine with the Pirellis but experience from two winters here in Norway show that those two tires belong to different classes of tires (the Hakkas are Nordic winter tires while the Pirellis are continental winter tires). One guy here in Norway called them "Italian sledges" :)

Well, I've also heard the Pirellis are very quiet, which is also important to me. I will be doing a lot of highway driving. The real snow traction will probably be really important to me much less than 1% of the time. But if I can't get up my driveway when I need to, it will certainly be quite annoying. If I wind up having to switch to the Hakkas at some point of course I will.


Which brings me to this:


I can understand Tesla's thinking, given the unpredictable consequences of using non-standard size wheels and tires. This could result in something as simple as a tire rubbing a fender when making sharp turns, to a bizarre handling anomaly. Tesla can't be expected to track all of these incompatibilities or to offer free changeovers if problems arise. To me, it makes sense that untested tires and wheels would be used at the customer's risk. I would imagine that many high-performance car brands have a similar policy; they just may not make you put it in writing up front.

Earlier in this thread it had been posted that Tesla was now selling and mounting Hakkas in Canada. I know Tesla had been selling and mounting Hakkas in other countries for some time. I haven't heard yet that Hakkas are available through Tesla in the US. If they aren't, it seems they should be. As all the points made by Todd above aren't really valid in this case, since Tesla is already selling the exact setup in some places. I'm hoping that Tesla will offer Hakkas in the US, so that we'll be able to decide between at least these two tires.
 
Well, I've also heard the Pirellis are very quiet, which is also important to me. I will be doing a lot of highway driving. The real snow traction will probably be really important to me much less than 1% of the time. But if I can't get up my driveway when I need to, it will certainly be quite annoying. If I wind up having to switch to the Hakkas at some point of course I will.

The Hakkas are very quiet, much quieter than the summer tires (stock Contis). This is due to the softer rubber. I think probably the R2 will be as quiet, if not quieter, than the Pirellis. However they are much softer and feel a lot more "mushy" if you get what mean? Also they will limit your accelerstion on dry pavement and of course cornering.

The 1% you mention is the reason for proper winter tires :)
 
Earlier in this thread it had been posted that Tesla was now selling and mounting Hakkas in Canada. I know Tesla had been selling and mounting Hakkas in other countries for some time. I haven't heard yet that Hakkas are available through Tesla in the US. If they aren't, it seems they should be. As all the points made by Todd above aren't really valid in this case, since Tesla is already selling the exact setup in some places. I'm hoping that Tesla will offer Hakkas in the US, so that we'll be able to decide between at least these two tires.

Also, Tesla sold Hakka 7's as a winter tire setup in the U.S. in the first Model S winter of 2012/2013. I bought a pair of those Hakka 7's from Tesla and my only complaint is the noise of studs in an otherwise very quiet electric car. I still have some tread left on those Hakka 7's, but may replace them with Hakka R2's just because of the noise issue. If I do that swap, I will probably sell the used 7's for slightly above shipping costs.
 
I got the R2's at the beginning of November. They were pretty slippery for a few thousand miles but then settled in. Still dont feel as firm as the originals in wet conditions but very encouraging to hear the reports here on ice and snow. Not much snow in MA yet but it will come...
 
Guys I just had it confirmed today that Tesla Toronto is now selling the Hakka R2s and has them in stock.
From what I heard they are not very competitively priced though, over $500 each. It will be interesting to hear what other Locations report.

I purchased my Hakka R2's from Kal Tire for $350.00/tire and signed the waiver to have the Toronto SC mount, balance and install on my D which arrived today.
 
I switched my P85D from the Stock Michelin Primacy 19's to Nokian Hakka R2's today. The temps were in the mid 20's and I had a nice packed powder base on my driveway, so it was time for a test to compare the two. As you can see in the picture below, I had a nice run out to the cottonwood tree, doing 0 to 20 to 20 tests in the snow by using max acceleration until I saw 20 then hitting the brakes to come to a stop again.

Driveway sm.jpeg


The temps were at about 24˚F for the Michelin runs and warmed up to about 27˚F for the Hakka runs. Also, the Michelins were at outdoor temps when I did the runs, and the Hakkas were at garage temp of about 48˚ at the start. Both of these temperature differences would disadvantage the Hakkas. I use the "Motion Data Logger" app from JadeMind on the iPhone to log the accelerometer data at 100 Hz and then post processed it in a spreadsheet. I averaged and subtracted out the gravity vector and then calculated the magnitude of the remainder acceleration vector. This makes both acceleration and braking (deceleration) positive. If you look closely, you can see dips in the acceleration plots where I moved my foot from the accelerator to the brake pedal. All tests were done with full on accelerator and brake pedal, letting traction control and anti-lock braking do their thing. Each run had some small steering drift that I easily corrected.

Michelin vs Hakka.png


The Hakkas came on strong with about 0.4g acceleration and held that, doing a little better than 0.4g braking. The Michelins started at about 0.2g and after about 2 seconds rose to a little over 0.3g acceleration, but did worse in braking at less than 0.3g. After looking at these data a few ways, I would say that the Hakkas have about 40% better average grip, with even better than that in initial acceleration and hard braking. Rough 0-20-0 times were 9.6 seconds for the Michelins and 6.8 seconds for that Hakkas. The corresponds to stopping distances that are reduced by more than 30%.

Packed powder is probably best case for the Michelins in this Michelin Primacy vs Nokian Hakka R2 comparison. This fresh, cold, grippy snow gives pretty good traction. I am sure that in icy conditions the Hakkas would have won by a bigger percentage. See Nokian Cryo Crystal Concept — Nokian Tires for a description of the Nokian Cryo Crystals in the Hakka R2.

Given that I have a stretch of 15-16% grade up my driveway in Pagosa, I am very happy to have the Hakka R2's for Pagosa. Subtracting 0.16g to overcome the 16% grade from the above numbers, gives me a net acceleration of 0.04-0.14g with the Michelins vs 0.24g with the Hakkas. That is a big difference for starting uphill and stopping downhill!
 
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Very nice Cottonwood! I was going back and forth between the Nokian Hakka R2 and the Michelin X-ICE Xi3, so it was very timely to see your test results and driving impressions. Currently, I am still on the OEM 19" Goodyear all-season tires (with 18K miles), which are now pretty treacherous in the snow... Discount Tire is selling the Hakka R2 for $227 each, which seems very reasonable.
 
Great data Cottonwood! So much better than any testing I've ever seen in any car magazine!

We need to get some Colorado P85D's with different tires up to Georgetown Lake to do some comparison testing of different tires on ice. They only allow AWD so we can't compare 2WD Model S's.

There is a practice day on the ice on Jan 9: Fun Day for Practice

Who's interested? I know that there are several P85D's being delivered to Denver.
 
Note that the Michelins in his test are the Primacy, not the winter X-Ice. The test method is really nice though and I'd love to see the two winter tires head-to-head.

Exactly! I was comparing the stock Michelin Primacy All Season with the Nokian Hakka R2's. I did it because I was putting on the snows and had a pretty good driveway outside of my garage for the testing. Hard acceleration and braking is a simple test, but effective test. With an iPhone and a $4 app, it makes some pretty good testing available to almost any owner.

It would be great if we could get similar cars with different snow tires to do some side by side comparisons. The real challenge is having the same or similar snow/ice conditions.

I was doing my tests on packed powder. Ice is a worst case, but is probably more repeatable. The "Our Gang" group on Georgetown Lake only allows 4WD and AWD vehicles, but it does provide a reasonable place to try some comparisons. A few years ago (before the Model S), Tesla arranged some ice time on Georgetown Lake for Tesla owners to go out with 2WD Roadsters. I have been asking Tesla Denver to do that again.

For now, I am happy with my Hakka R2's.

As a side note, my daughter has a Prius, which is very sensitive to poor traction. The Prius gives priority to protecting its Synery drive over moving, and just kills power if a wheel starts slipping. She could not get the Hakka R2's in a reasonable time and went with the Michelin X-Ice tires and has had good luck with the X-Ice.
 
Just had the Hakka R2s mounted today, at Discount Tire ($227 apiece plus usual charges). I put together a checklist of things to be mentioned to the dealer when not mounting the tires at a Tesla Service Center:

1) Show them the "Jacking" page in the manual
2) Put up a "how do you drive it" tutorial on the display and walk them thru it (I like VALET - TESLAMODS )
3) Warn them that leaving the fob in the car might get it locked in there while they're working
4) Ask them to mark the mounted location of the old tires so they can be put back in the same place come spring-time
5) Make sure they put the wheels back to the corner they came from so the TPS isn't confused
6) Confirm they get inflated to 45 PSI
7) Confirm no TPS warnings appear after they're done

Should we have a "checklists" thread? I need to put my "things to do when accepting delivery" checklist somewhere...