Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3

[pnwadventures]

I have an AWD and am just wrapping up my second winter season on these tires, including some very intense winter driving. Overall very pleased: I haven't seen a noticeable efficiency hit in the dry (trying apples to apples drives), and they really hook up great in the snow and ice. I've got many, many years on Blizzak and Wintersport 3D tires, but on Audi, not Tesla, so it's an awkward comparison.

Curious to hear from anyone else who's run these tires and a different winter tire on the Model 3, and has any comments on the difference.

 

[Snow Drift]

Considering your experience with Wintersport tires, which are performance winter tires (I've used the SP Wintersport M3 on a WRX), I am surprised you would compromise your dry days with R3s. I always considered them to be overkill for most snow conditions.

I have used:

Dunlop SP Wintersport M3 (WRX 5MT)
Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3 (WRX 5MT)
Michelin X-ICE Xi3 (WRX STI 6MT and Model 3)
Pirelli P Zero Winter (Model Y)

 

[pnwadventures]

That is a good list of reference tires. Have you tried the Hakkapeliitta yet?

I do only run these tires in the winter, of course. I’ll be looking for a good (foam-free!) summer tire in the near future.

Having come from Audi as a first time Tesla owner, I wanted to err on the side of aggressive traction, and I was sold on the low rolling resistance advertisement.

I do somewhat often need a pretty reliable snow tire:

 

[SageBrush]

I've got many, many years on Blizzak and Wintersport 3D tires, but on Audi, not Tesla, so it's an awkward comparison.

Why ?

 

[SFLM3P19]

yea, truly not an awkward comparison if your talking about an Audi sedan or wagon with Quattro.
quattro a4-a6 vs AWD Model 3 is a very good comparison.
I had and 13 S6 and ill tell ya....my current M3P is kicking its ass right now. but in sunny south florida.

 

[pnwadventures]

Why ?

What I meant is that since I changed both the car and the tire, it’s difficult to know how much to attribute the handling characteristics of the setup to the tires versus the car itself.

Ideally, I’d have either gone from Audi+Blizzak to Tesla+Blizzak (compare vehicle AWD) or Tesla+Blizzak to Tesla+Hakkapeliitta (compare tires).

 

[pnwadventures]

yea, truly not an awkward comparison if your talking about an Audi sedan or wagon with Quattro.
quattro a4-a6 vs AWD Model 3 is a very good comparison.
I had and 13 S6 and ill tell ya....my current M3P is kicking its ass right now. but in sunny south florida.

It was a Torsen Quattro b7 A4 Avant.

My AWD 3 is quite good in the snow, but I still hope we eventually get a “snow mode” feature where we can force full-time 50/50 torque distribution - at the expense of Wh/mi, of course - for driving on slippery surfaces. I think this can be done in the Performance.

 

[SageBrush]

What I meant is that since I changed both the car and the tire, it’s difficult to know how much to attribute the handling characteristics of the setup to the tires versus the car itself.

Gotcha.

But the x-comparison as is interests me. What is your impression ?

 

[pnwadventures]

Gotcha.

But the x-comparison as is interests me. What is your impression ?

Well, it's not a simple answer. I think the Tesla AWD has much better traction control, but it has to engage more often.

The old Quattro I had was Torsen based, which is the mechanical full-time AWD that was configured on that car to distribute torque 50/50. This is a bad setup for fuel efficiency and performance driving (due to understeer bias), which is why Audi finally ditched it a few years ago for a part-time electronic AWD system. So a recent Audi would be a much better comparison to a Tesla. That said, the FT 50/50 distribution is IMO the gold standard for snow and ice driving.

I believe that the AWD Tesla has the potential to be the best system out there, if I was only able to force the system into 50/50 (or similar) for snow driving. IINM, the Performance cars can do it. The advantage of that arrangement is that I don't have to wait for the car to react to a loss of traction by engaging the front. This is what I occasionally notice in my non-P AWD: the rear will start to just slip or kick a little bit and then the front starts to pull and straighten everything out. I've actually found I can kludge around this a little bit by being more liberal on the accelerator to prematurely engage the front when powering out of an ice covered parking lot, for example. Again, if we could be tossed a small bone here by just getting an on/off or "snow" button which just does the 50/50 until disabled, we'd be gold. IMO this wouldn't cannibalize the flexibility offered in the Performance models.

 

[Kirbster]

Well, it's not a simple answer. I think the Tesla AWD has much better traction control, but it has to engage more often.

The old Quattro I had was Torsen based, which is the mechanical full-time AWD that was configured on that car to distribute torque 50/50. This is a bad setup for fuel efficiency and performance driving (due to understeer bias), which is why Audi finally ditched it a few years ago for a part-time electronic AWD system. So a recent Audi would be a much better comparison to a Tesla. That said, the FT 50/50 distribution is IMO the gold standard for snow and ice driving.

I believe that the AWD Tesla has the potential to be the best system out there, if I was only able to force the system into 50/50 (or similar) for snow driving. IINM, the Performance cars can do it. The advantage of that arrangement is that I don't have to wait for the car to react to a loss of traction by engaging the front. This is what I occasionally notice in my non-P AWD: the rear will start to just slip or kick a little bit and then the front starts to pull and straighten everything out. I've actually found I can kludge around this a little bit by being more liberal on the accelerator to prematurely engage the front when powering out of an ice covered parking lot, for example. Again, if we could be tossed a small bone here by just getting an on/off or "snow" button which just does the 50/50 until disabled, we'd be gold. IMO this wouldn't cannibalize the flexibility offered in the Performance models.

I came from a B7 A4 Avant to an ‘18 LR dual motor I had Hakka R2 on the Audi and now have R3 on the Tesla. I seriously miss the Quattro all wheel drive when in stop and go traffic or just generally starting from a stop on snowy roads. Having to wait for rear end to slip before the front motor kicks in drives me nuts. Sure if you are more aggressive with the accelerator pedal you can get it to kick in quicker but that doesn’t work well in bumper to bumper traffic especially going up hill off camber.
I would gladly take the range penalty to have the 50/50 split when needed just give me a button to turn it on and off.

 

[pnwadventures]

I came from a B7 A4 Avant to an ‘18 LR dual motor

Same! I had a B7 Avant with Ti package and a k04 turbo upgrade. Absolutely loved that car, until the motor blew up. I miss the car, but not the maintenance and oil problems.

Let’s hope we can get a 50/50 option on the Tesla AWD.

 

[frontrangeM3]

Our 2015 Q5 does really well in snowy mountain driving. Pretty much unstoppable until things get super hairy to where you just need more ground clearance.

We run Hakka WR3s on that car, and like them. Better in the dry and merely wet, tolerate warmer temperatures too.

Trying to decide on a 2021 Model LR AWD. Good report. Thanks for the info.

 

[Kirbster]

Our 2015 Q5 does really well in snowy mountain driving. Pretty much unstoppable until things get super hairy to where you just need more ground clearance.

We run Hakka WR3s on that car, and like them. Better in the dry and merely wet, tolerate warmer temperatures too.

Trying to decide on a 2021 Model LR AWD. Good report. Thanks for the info.

Personally I don't think I will do another set of Hakka’s on the Tesla just too soft for how heavy the car is especially when the temperature is above freezing which is a lot of the winter on the front range I had Dunlop Wintersport 3 on the A4 before the hakka r2 and I preferred the full snow over the performance snow on the Audi. For the Tesla I’m going to try a performance snow next time if not the Sottozero3 then the Michelin pilot alpin pa4.

 

[des16]

Personally I don't think I will do another set of Hakka’s on the Tesla just too soft for how heavy the car is especially when the temperature is above freezing which is a lot of the winter on the front range I had Dunlop Wintersport 3 on the A4 before the hakka r2 and I preferred the full snow over the performance snow on the Audi. For the Tesla I’m going to try a performance snow next time if not the Sottozero3 then the Michelin pilot alpin pa4.

I am completing my second winter with the R3s. I live up in the canyons outside of Salt Lake where snow is usually (not this winter) a daily occurrence. I will not go into performance issues since I've posted about this elsewhere. But I can tell you that I will be only getting around 15K miles on the R3s (2 seasons which is from mid November though April). I'm not yet sure what I will replace them with, but hope to find something with a little more tread life.

 

[frontrangeM3]

Personally I don't think I will do another set of Hakka’s on the Tesla just too soft for how heavy the car is especially when the temperature is above freezing which is a lot of the winter on the front range I had Dunlop Wintersport 3 on the A4 before an the hakka r2 and I preferred the full snow over the performance snow on the Audi. For the Tesla I’m going to try a performance snow next time if not the Sottozero3 then the Michelin pilot alpin pa4.

I should clarify that we run the suv version of the WR3. The Q5 is a diesel and weighs 700# more than the LR. It’s a heavy car too.

Being an all-weather tire (not to be confused with an all-season), they’re closer to a performance snow in some respects.

 

[holmgang]

Winter tire is the trickiest discussion because the range of actual condition people are subjected to vary dramatically. On top of that, other tires they may have had were on different cars/platforms in different climates.

My experience with Tesla + R3 driving in the Nordics -- and ive had a few of other tires mentioned here -- is that they are what they are. They're a strong-winter-appropriate tire. They're not terrible in the dry. They're NOT infallible in extreme conditions. Neither they nor the Tesla are some magic combo.

With any bit of slope or weight transfer (e.g. in roundabout) i can breathe on the throttle and kick the tail out. I've had a couple of small hairy situation here or there, even at very slow speeds, with near-freezing wet.

If I drove more frequently on deep snow, on more icy condition, or on variable terrain, I would go with studded tires. In certain conditions, you just cant cheat physics.

**

For most temperate / 4 -season / continental climate, I'm a big fan of the Pilot Alpin series.

 

[Kirbster]

I should clarify that we run the suv version of the WR3. The Q5 is a diesel and weighs 700# more than the LR. It’s a heavy car too.

Being an all-weather tire (not to be confused with an all-season), they’re closer to a performance snow in some respects.

Makes sense. I’ve heard of people running the R3 SUV in a model 3 but I never looked into that.

 

[Kirbster]

I am completing my second winter with the R3s. I live up in the canyons outside of Salt Lake where snow is usually (not this winter) a daily occurrence. I will not go into performance issues since I've posted about this elsewhere. But I can tell you that I will be only getting around 15K miles on the R3s (2 seasons which is from mid November though April). I'm not yet sure what I will replace them with, but hope to find something with a little more tread life.

I’m sure up in the canyons the R3s are great and when you get down into the city they are a little soft. CO is similar it just takes us 50miles versus less than 30 in SLC. If I live in the high country I wouldnt consider a performance snow but when half the drove to ski is above freezing and above 70mph(assuming no traffic aka a weekday) the dry performance starts becoming more important.