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Non tesla owners using tesla chargers.

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Since Henry won't brag on this like he should, I will.

Back when the CAN SR was first developed, I was at a party where I showed it to some very senior Tesla execs. They were wowed. And *borrowed* it from me for a few weeks to show around internally. They were impressed with the engineering and applauded Henry for making the destination charging system available to Roadster owners. They were pleased with the CAN SR because it allowed (their words) their most valued customers to have access to charging on the road. Tesla is well aware that in the early days, Roadster owners built out networks on their own dime that Tesla execs also used for travel.

Henry is 100% correct when he states that Tesla does intend for the Roadster and Gen 2 public Destination chargers be compatible - the lack of compatibility with some was truly an oversight that will be corrected.

They've circled back more than once on other compatibility issues for the Roadster - one software upgrade was the result of my discovery that the J1772 Roadster adapter wouldn't work if there was a 80amp (or greater) pilot signal. (This was before the Destination Charging network was ever announced.) I reported the anomaly, it was reproducible, about six months later Roadster owners had a sw upgrade. And that upgrade was necessary to be able to work with future 80amp Destination chargers.

Don't get me wrong. I definitely wish Tesla would actually support Roadster owners more than they do. I'd have no issue with Roadsters using the Tesla destination charger network... especially if they had an official or officially endorsed product that permitted it.

However, as much as I'd like to believe they want to do so, their actions to date seem more like just enough to keep Roadster folks from having a fit vs actual support for the product and owners. For example, the new battery upgrade could have easily included a Model S/X-type charge port and even supercharging capability with minimal additional effort. They're removing and modifying the entire battery and PEM anyway. With what would be minimal additional effort they could have added the few bits of hardware necessary to bring a Roadster up to par with their other models on the charging side of things. Perhaps not 120kW supercharging, but easily something like 60kW could be done.

To me, this is the biggest telltale from Tesla with regard to the Roadster. Sorry, @bonnie, but I just don't buy the narrative that Tesla would act against their own interests with regard to the Roadsters. There is so much they could very easily do to improve things for Roadster owners that they simply will not do because it just doesn't benefit them. It simply isn't in Tesla's best interest at this point to do so for the same reasons they refuse to upgrade/retrofit new tech on to older Model S/X vehicles. Why offer an upgrade that will generate only a portion of the profits that could be had if that owner simply traded in their current vehicle towards a new one? This is why we see no battery upgrades, no AP tech upgrades, or virtually any other retrofitted improvements. Sure, Musk publicly tries to brush this off by saying it would somehow slow progress. But most of these upgrades, in particular battery upgrades, take no additional effort on Tesla's part. For example, the new 100 kWh pack is a drop in replacement part for ANY existing Model S or X. At best it requires a plastic spacer piece be swapped with an alternate one on the HV connector... which Tesla already produces so that they can do warranty pack swaps when an older pack isn't available.

I might be convinced that the issue with the Gen2 HPWCs with regard to the Roadster is an oversight, except that maintaining compatibility with the Roadster prevents the power-sharing feature of the new design from functioning. The new HPWCs have digital communication with the vehicles in order to perfectly share power on Gen2 HPWCs which are on a shared circuit. So, if one car on an 80A shared circuit is only pulling/wanting 20A and another wants as much as possible, the other will get 60A vs just splitting the available power 40/40 in a "dumb" way when two cars are connected, meaning 20A would be unused in the previous example. Using the cars themselves for managing this power sharing makes the HPWC design itself less complicated (no need to monitor current in the device, for example) and more efficient. The Roadster simply doesn't have the hardware needed for this digital communication (same comm used for supercharging).

So, again, I would love for Roadsters to have access to ALL Tesla charging... but it's just not in Tesla's interest to make this possible. Whether or not they'll purposefully make it more difficult is another story. I think the issue with Roadster compatibility with the Gen2 HPWC is just the cost of progress.

Perhaps when proceeds from Model 3 start to roll in and Tesla can be less concerned about quarter-to-quarter sales things will change. But right now, I just don't see it happening. Tesla has been strategically releasing new things to drive demand at predictable intervals. They need to S/X demand right now more than they need to worry about a few Roadster owners not being able to use things not designed for them.

For the record, my stance on non-Tesla vehicles using Tesla chargers stands. Unless Tesla officially releases some kind of adapter making it possible (and thus completely safe), or forges a relationship with another manufacturer where they utilize a Tesla charge inlet... non-Tesla vehicles should use non-Tesla chargers. If a non-public charger owner wants to let non-Tesla vehicles use an adapter, by all means. Just make sure others know it's been done so they don't risk damage to their vehicles when using your potentially damaged charger. But I shouldn't have to go to a public Tesla destination charger and wonder if it's damaged to the point where it will damage my vehicle. I highly doubt the Tesla->J1772 adapter folks are putting in the engineering efforts @hcsharp has.
 
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When has any car maker ever offered significant hardware upgrades to any car? It's just not done, other than Tesla offering the new battery pack for the Roadster. It's not reasonable to expect Tesla to offer hardware upgrades. The tech is constantly improving, and upgrading old cars would become a never-ending job.

With tech, whether cars or computers, you buy one, and in a month there's something better, and you live with what you have until you're willing to pay for a later version. And we all know that going in: Whatever you buy today will be superseded in a day or a month, or maybe a year if you buy the very newest thing the first day it comes out.

Complaining that Tesla won't retrofit cars is asking them to do something that no other company does.
 
When has any car maker ever offered significant hardware upgrades to any car? It's just not done, other than Tesla offering the new battery pack for the Roadster. It's not reasonable to expect Tesla to offer hardware upgrades. The tech is constantly improving, and upgrading old cars would become a never-ending job.

With tech, whether cars or computers, you buy one, and in a month there's something better, and you live with what you have until you're willing to pay for a later version. And we all know that going in: Whatever you buy today will be superseded in a day or a month, or maybe a year if you buy the very newest thing the first day it comes out.

Complaining that Tesla won't retrofit cars is asking them to do something that no other company does.

Hasnt really been possible for other companies. With Tesla, a 60->100 upgrade is a bolt on part requiring < 30 minutes of labor to do with the right equipment (~60-90 minutes with basic mechanic's equipment). Big difference between that and an engine upgrade in an ICE or comparable improvement/upgrade.... hence the obvious reasons why no one else does it.
 
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Technically it's feasible for sure. Technically you can upgrade say an Audi 2.0Tdi A5 to a V8 S5 with appx 12 hours labor but ...

Logistics is the biggest hurdle. Unless Tesla can make this work as profitable as building new vehicles it won't happen. For profitable you have to consider the sell price (we all know how costly spares are), the resources at the SCs in terms of trained people/space and general resource (and they're mostly maxxed out already), then on top of which you have to look at the infrastructure to ship such items out in a vaguely economic manner, control of factory inventory and so it goes on.

Tesla are certainly closer than other manufacturers to offer this, but I still highly doubt we will see any notable upgrade schemes offered at least until MS batteries start wearing out. (the roadster is trivial in numbers but does indicate at least some hope).
 
Tesla has limited resources, both in personnel and finances. Upgrading ancient (in Tesla time) Roadsters to be supercharger capable is not a priority, no matter how much Tesla and all Model S and X owners owe the Roadster buyers for their early support of the company.
 
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Don't get me wrong. I definitely wish Tesla would actually support Roadster owners more than they do. I'd have no issue with Roadsters using the Tesla destination charger network... especially if they had an official or officially endorsed product that permitted it.

I couldn't agree with you more.

I deeply irks, me, though that Tesla then views the Roadster as a non-Tesla.
 
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But I shouldn't have to go to a public Tesla destination charger and wonder if it's damaged to the point where it will damage my vehicle. I highly doubt the Tesla->J1772 adapter folks are putting in the engineering efforts hcsharp has.

Well, I certainly can't say you don't just blurt out whatever pops into your mind ;-) Your concept of damaged vehicles would certainly have to go both ways, no? If you plug your Tesla into a CHAdeMO or J1772 non-Tesla charge station, wouldn't you expect the same warning to cars that might use the station after you? Surely, those people don't want their car potentially damaged, either?

I'm somewhat reminded of my newly purchased Tesla powered 2012 Toyota RAV4 EV that was charging away in my garage, which promptly melted the charge inlet and plug to each other. Ya, Tesla wasn't wholly to blame for that, but there was and is simple modifications that Tesla now employs, like plug thermal monitoring that may have prevented / mitigated this. Honda, at the time, had already adopted such temperature control on their Fit EV.

We have designed a Tesla to J1772 adapter called JDapter. This is not our first rodeo building charging equipment, and if it offers you any consulation, this adapter is professionally designed by engineers with professional degrees hanging on the wall. It's not their first rodeo, either.

Sure, I wouldn't expect you to use anything you don't want to. But, here are some people that might like to have JDapter with their very own Tesla charging station:

1) Owners of the Tesla powered 2012-2014 Toyota RAV4 EV

2) Owners of the Tesla powered 2014-newer Mercedes B-Class ED

3) Tesla owners that also have a LEAF, BMW i3, Soul EV, Bolt EV, etc.

4) Commercial vehciles at 80 amps with J1772 inlets (yes, they are out there)

5) Folks with a Volt, LEAF, etc, today who plan to have a "real" car (Tesla) someday in the future

6) Folks who want to charge 2-4 cars at once with limited available electrical power (for instance, 4 units on one 50 amp breaker)

7) Commercial venues like motels, auto dealers, etc, who want one quality Tesla charge station for all EVs

8) Professional installation companies who specialist in Tesla installs
 
Did anybody answer the tech question? Did I miss it?

Can a HPWC with a J1772 end charge a J1772 car?

ie - Does buying a HPWC make sense for a business to service customers? Or is a J1772-only charger the sole candidate?
 
Did anybody answer the tech question? Did I miss it?

Can a HPWC with a J1772 end charge a J1772 car?

ie - Does buying a HPWC make sense for a business to service customers? Or is a J1772-only charger the sole candidate?
yes it can... be modified- simple modification.

HPWC, Juicebox 75 and the Clppercreek ts-70 are the only high powered (over 70A) EVSE's that I am aware of. Everything else maxes out at 10kw
 
Did anybody answer the tech question? Did I miss it?

Can a HPWC with a J1772 end charge a J1772 car?

ie - Does buying a HPWC make sense for a business to service customers? Or is a J1772-only charger the sole candidate?

Tesla charging stations with a J1772 has already been done, for as long as Tesla has been making mostly J1772 capable equipment. Google JESLA and J-Wall.
 
This site and signage makes it pretty clear what the intention from Tesla is "Tesla Vehicle Charging Only"

PlugShare Web v2

This site Home | EVolution Australia - For All Your EV Charger EVSE Requirements even promotes an adapter cable and shows a picture of the same sign.

I've got no problem using my adapters on any chargers designed for all EV's but I have a big issue with non Tesla EV's using "Tesla Only" hardware I've helped sudsidised. I want Tesla to rule the world NOT Chevy, Nissan, BMW etc
 
We have only used ours once. Not tool long ago actually. We had been running around town a little more than we thought we would have to but knew we had a 45 minute or so stop at the Cathedral city parkade so we could charge up a bit (we were under 40 percent). There were stalls empty with a Tesla destination charger, the clipper creek unit was occupied by a Tesla using an adapter. My guess is there were probably two or more Tesla's here earlier and one used his J1772 adapter. Anyway, whatever the situation was, there was a Tesla charger open (two I think) and we backed in and hooked up with our adapter. We were done about 50 minutes later and when we left the Tesla was still there. No worries, and everyone got a charge. This is something we try to avoid and we would always yield to a Tesla on a Tesla charger. Manners etc. It was handy having the adapter in this case.
 
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The outcome would be shocking probably to say the least. Hopefully the SC would limit its output, but depending on what type of gizmo they concocted to adapt to the SC, sparks would probably be an understatement. "Don't try this at home" or "watch this" two phrases come to mind...o_O
For those non-Tesla EV owners who want to charge with MORE POWER, I think there may be a Binford 6100 model SuperCharger adapter. :)
 
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Hello Tesla community.

Angela and I are both EV drivers. Nissan leaf and Smart ED. There has been the very odd occasion where either through bad planning or an outage that it would have been convenient to take on an hour or so of charge at a Tesla destination charger. Eg, winery, hotel etc. There is currently a device that allows connection from a J1772 plug to a Tesla destination charger. We are thinking of purchasing one of these devices as a backup plan. Being a courteous Canadian I would like to hear some feedback on what Tesla owners think of this. I know Tesla owners are able to utilize both CHaDemo and J1772 chargers but wondering how this sits with the Tesla community.

Teslas are not affordable for us at this time so that is not a solution.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

John and Angela.
I didn’t read through most of the responses, but personally, I feel your coming onto the forum to ask is a most honorable gesture, above and beyond what most folks would do. And if I had to wait a bit of time behind a person such as yourself, I wouldn’t mind at all.

There’s the Tesla community, which I’m proud to be a part of, and then there’s ultimately the EV community, that all EV owners are part of, regardless of brand. And I feel we’re all in it together, so to speak. I believe Musk feels the same way.

K lemme get off my soapbox before my breakfast gets cold.
 
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