Non tesla owners using tesla chargers.

[daniel]

I want fewer gas cars on the road. To that end, I feel a kinship to all other EV drivers, regardless of what make of car they drive, and I would hope that all EV drivers would be welcome at all charging locations. But I need to admit that I've never charged anywhere but at home. So overcrowding at charging stations does not affect me. With 245 miles of range, I'm never going to charge away from home, because my only long road trips (once a year to Canada for hiking) are on secondary roads unlikely to see super-chargers in the time I have left before I'm too old to drive safely.

 

[jbcarioca]

I'll do that....next time I'm driving through Rio.....

...or Miami

 

[Webeevdrivers]

I was in a situation a couple days ago where it would have been handy to have that adapter. Under ground parking, 2 X j1772 and 2 X Tesla chargers. Both j1772 were being used and neither Tesla. We were only there for and hour but we were on the wrong side of half (bad planning on our part) so it would have been nice to take on a half dozen KWH.

Checked out the new Rancho Mirage DCFC chargers today. Excellent location, close to shopping, Pizza, Starbucks etc. Gorgeous Tesla S there. Think we spotted him in Starbucks as he kept glancing towards his car. I would too. sigh....

By the way these were Chademo/SAE combo units. First time I saw a combo unit. Cool

 

[walla2]

If you check the Roadster forums, you will find out that some destination chargers don't allow Roadsters to charge. My guess is that an adapter won't fool the handshake and may not allow non-Tesla cars to charge. Some will work though but not all do.

 

[wk057]

If you check the Roadster forums, you will find out that some destination chargers don't allow Roadsters to charge. My guess is that an adapter won't fool the handshake and may not allow non-Tesla cars to charge. Some will work though but not all do.

Tesla appears to have specifically made the Gen2 wall connectors incompatible with vehicles that only support basic J1772. There is digital communication between the wall connector and the car now. So, the Roadster can't use them either. I think this change was in direct response to people trying to use the stations with 3rd party adapters.

And, honestly, good for them. I have a bit of a problem with people trying to use 3rd party adapters with Tesla destination chargers to charge vehicles not designed to use them (ie, not a Model S/X). Since Tesla has not released specifications for their charging inlet or charge handles, any adapter that attempts to utilize it will likely be incorrect in either material, size tolerance, or other factor. The way Tesla's charging connectors are designed it would be pretty easy for a shoddy adapter to permanently damage the connector on the charger either due to mechanical or thermal factors. I don't think it's appropriate for these people to be allowed to risk damaging the station, and thus potentially screwing over other drivers, by using such adapters.

Tesla's destination charger list also doesn't differentiate the Gen1 and Gen2 wall connectors, either, so you'd be rolling the dice on whether or not your 3rd party adapter would actually work when you get there anyway.

My suggestion to people who want to charge at Tesla stations would be to buy a Tesla Model S/X. Otherwise use public chargers that are designed to work with your car.

 

[TonyWilliams]

My suggestion to people who want to charge at Tesla stations would be to buy a Tesla Model S/X. Otherwise use public chargers that are designed to work with your car.

I think your assumption is that people with such an adaptor won't also have a Tesla is off the mark.Clearly, many will, while happily charging another non-Tesla at home with the HPWC,

 

[hcsharp]

Tesla appears to have specifically made the Gen2 wall connectors incompatible with vehicles that only support basic J1772. There is digital communication between the wall connector and the car now. So, the Roadster can't use them either. I think this change was in direct response to people trying to use the stations with 3rd party adapters.

And, honestly, good for them. I have a bit of a problem with people trying to use 3rd party adapters with Tesla destination chargers to charge vehicles not designed to use them (ie, not a Model S/X). Since Tesla has not released specifications for their charging inlet or charge handles, any adapter that attempts to utilize it will likely be incorrect in either material, size tolerance, or other factor. The way Tesla's charging connectors are designed it would be pretty easy for a shoddy adapter to permanently damage the connector on the charger either due to mechanical or thermal factors. I don't think it's appropriate for these people to be allowed to risk damaging the station, and thus potentially screwing over other drivers, by using such adapters.

Tesla's destination charger list also doesn't differentiate the Gen1 and Gen2 wall connectors, either, so you'd be rolling the dice on whether or not your 3rd party adapter would actually work when you get there anyway.

My suggestion to people who want to charge at Tesla stations would be to buy a Tesla Model S/X. Otherwise use public chargers that are designed to work with your car.

You're right on almost all your points. The only thing I would modify in your post is to change "Tesla Model S/X" to "all Teslas" so it would include Model 3 and Roadsters. You may not be aware that Roadster owners have been told by Tesla that the Destination network was meant to include them. A Roadster solution from Tesla is in the works to resolve compatibility issues.

Full disclosure: I sell an adapter to allow Roadsters to charge from TSLA2 (model S/X) charging connectors (but not superchargers).

The adapter was professionally designed at considerable cost to ensure it would be compatible with the connectors. It is rated for 80A although the Roadster will only draw 70. Among the considerations that were taken into account during development were heat dissipation rates, thermal tolerance of all parts, pin float, pin coating, flammability, prevention of live disconnects, and more.

 

[bonnie]

Tesla appears to have specifically made the Gen2 wall connectors incompatible with vehicles that only support basic J1772. There is digital communication between the wall connector and the car now. So, the Roadster can't use them either. I think this change was in direct response to people trying to use the stations with 3rd party adapters.

And, honestly, good for them. I have a bit of a problem with people trying to use 3rd party adapters with Tesla destination chargers to charge vehicles not designed to use them (ie, not a Model S/X). Since Tesla has not released specifications for their charging inlet or charge handles, any adapter that attempts to utilize it will likely be incorrect in either material, size tolerance, or other factor. The way Tesla's charging connectors are designed it would be pretty easy for a shoddy adapter to permanently damage the connector on the charger either due to mechanical or thermal factors. I don't think it's appropriate for these people to be allowed to risk damaging the station, and thus potentially screwing over other drivers, by using such adapters.

Tesla's destination charger list also doesn't differentiate the Gen1 and Gen2 wall connectors, either, so you'd be rolling the dice on whether or not your 3rd party adapter would actually work when you get there anyway.

My suggestion to people who want to charge at Tesla stations would be to buy a Tesla Model S/X. Otherwise use public chargers that are designed to work with your car.

You're right on almost all your points. The only thing I would modify in your post is to change "Tesla Model S/X" to "all Teslas" so it would include Model 3 and Roadsters. You may not be aware that Roadster owners have been told by Tesla that the Destination network was meant to include them. A Roadster solution from Tesla is in the works to resolve compatibility issues.

Full disclosure: I sell an adapter to allow Roadsters to charge from TSLA2 (model S/X) charging connectors (but not superchargers).

The adapter was professionally designed at considerable cost to ensure it would be compatible with the connectors. It is rated for 80A although the Roadster will only draw 70. Among the considerations that were taken into account during development were heat dissipation rates, thermal tolerance of all parts, pin float, pin coating, flammability, prevention of live disconnects, and more.

I'd only add to Henry's response that Tesla tells Roadster owners about Henry's adapters - and a few service centers keep one handy so that they can charge Roadsters off of the chargers in the service bays.

 

[wk057]

You're right on almost all your points. The only thing I would modify in your post is to change "Tesla Model S/X" to "all Teslas" so it would include Model 3 and Roadsters. You may not be aware that Roadster owners have been told by Tesla that the Destination network was meant to include them. A Roadster solution from Tesla is in the works to resolve compatibility issues.

Full disclosure: I sell an adapter to allow Roadsters to charge from TSLA2 (model S/X) charging connectors (but not superchargers).

The adapter was professionally designed at considerable cost to ensure it would be compatible with the connectors. It is rated for 80A although the Roadster will only draw 70. Among the considerations that were taken into account during development were heat dissipation rates, thermal tolerance of all parts, pin float, pin coating, flammability, prevention of live disconnects, and more.

Obviously would include Model 3 when there are Model 3s. Right now, S/X. Sorry, but the Roadster was pretty much left behind on charging. I assume your adapter does not work with the Gen2 wall connectors?

I'd only add to Henry's response that Tesla tells Roadster owners about Henry's adapters - and a few service centers keep one handy so that they can charge Roadsters off of the chargers in the service bays.

Which is fine, however his adapter probably doesn't work with the Gen2 wall connectors. If Tesla intended Roadsters to be able to do so then this would not be the case, or Tesla would have an official Model S/X -> Roadster adapter. Unfortunately such an adapter is pretty difficult to make now. The Gen2 wall connector wont provide any power for any active circuitry in such an adapter, and neither will the vehicle. So, I don't expect an adapter to happen. Perhaps some modification to the Roadster could allow it in the future, but also seems unlikely.

 

[CuriousG]

The way Tesla's charging connectors are designed it would be pretty easy for a shoddy adapter to permanently damage the connector on the charger either due to mechanical or thermal factors. I don't think it's appropriate for these people to be allowed to risk damaging the station, and thus potentially screwing over other drivers, by using such adapters.

So what about the other way around? I read somewhere on here that a lot of the dealership CHAdeMO aren't allowing Teslas to charge due to it "breaking" their charger. Not sure if they mean that it's tripping their breakers or the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter causes issues. The dealership is within their right to selectively allow who can charge.

 

[PowerSource]

The gen 2 HPWC's work with generic J1772 compliant on-board chargers (i.e. the Delta-Q 3300 among others). i have personally tested them with these on-board chargers. If there is any issue, it is due to the adapter design or the implementation of J1772 on the vehicle side.

In fact, I did a test a few months ago by just replacing the chargeport with a Model S one on a bone stock vehicle and it worked flawlessly.

 

[gregd]

Which is fine, however his adapter probably doesn't work with the Gen2 wall connectors. If Tesla intended Roadsters to be able to do so then this would not be the case, or Tesla would have an official Model S/X -> Roadster adapter. Unfortunately such an adapter is pretty difficult to make now. The Gen2 wall connector wont provide any power for any active circuitry in such an adapter, and neither will the vehicle. So, I don't expect an adapter to happen. Perhaps some modification to the Roadster could allow it in the future, but also seems unlikely.

We (Roadster owners) don't know what they will do to fix the situation, only that it was their mistake that it doesn't currently work. Henry's adapter is a fine product (I own and have used both), and as Bonnie noted, the Tesla Service Centers recommend it to their customers. The issue with the Gen2 chargers is between the charger and the car, not with the adapter.

 

[Moonwick]

Just my opinion here, but if I came to a destination charger that were in use by a non-Tesla I'd be no more bothered than if it were in use by a Tesla. Driving electric and not running out of magic pixies is still quite a challenge compared to driving on gas, and I empathize with anyone who drives an EV. I figure we're all in this together, and as long as the property where the destination charger is installed is okay with it I don't see a problem with it at all.

Also, welcome to the forum! We take all kinds here, so don't worry about what you have parked in your garage. That drop-top on your Smart looks awesome, I've gotta admit I'm a tad jealous.

 

[hcsharp]

Obviously would include Model 3 when there are Model 3s. Right now, S/X. Sorry, but the Roadster was pretty much left behind on charging. I assume your adapter does not work with the Gen2 wall connectors?

We're sorry too that the Roadster was left behind, as you put it. Fortunately it was an unintended oversight and the situation is only temporary. The Gen2 wall chargers that are sold for home or public use don't have compatibility issues with my adapter or J1772 vehicles.

Which is fine, however his adapter probably doesn't work with the Gen2 wall connectors. If Tesla intended Roadsters to be able to do so then this would not be the case, or Tesla would have an official Model S/X -> Roadster adapter. Unfortunately such an adapter is pretty difficult to make now. The Gen2 wall connector wont provide any power for any active circuitry in such an adapter, and neither will the vehicle. So, I don't expect an adapter to happen. Perhaps some modification to the Roadster could allow it in the future, but also seems unlikely.

The adapter works with the Gen2 wall chargers that anyone can purchase. Tesla has stated unambiguously that they did in fact intend for Roadsters to be able to use the Destination chargers using my adapter. We didn't just hear this from a random tech at a service center. As Bonnie stated, Tesla has purchased a lot of my adapters and use them daily. They also recommend them to a lot of customers although they have stopped short of officially endorsing it for obvious liability reasons. You are correct that making such an adapter is hard to do. I suspect that's why they were happy to see mine, and save their engineering resources for other projects. That's why it cost me so bloody much money to develop it. Oh, and BTW it does contain active electronics. It might seem unlikely to you, and you may ultimately be right, but we've been promised a solution to the compatibility problem and I still have faith that Tesla will follow through on their promise.

 

[FlatSix911]

Well done ... Tesla Made Better - The CAN - Roadster to J1772 or Model S/X connector

The Gen2 wall chargers that are sold for home or public use don't have compatibility issues with my adapter or J1772 vehicles. The adapter works with the Gen2 wall chargers that anyone can purchase. Tesla has stated unambiguously that they did in fact intend for Roadsters to be able to use the Destination chargers using my adapter. We didn't just hear this from a random tech at a service center. As Bonnie stated, Tesla has purchased a lot of my adapters and use them daily. They also recommend them to a lot of customers although they have stopped short of officially endorsing it for obvious liability reasons. You are correct that making such an adapter is hard to do. I suspect that's why they were happy to see mine, and save their engineering resources for other projects. That's why it cost me so bloody much money to develop it. Oh, and BTW it does contain active electronics. It might seem unlikely to you, and you may ultimately be right, but we've been promised a solution to the compatibility problem and I still have faith that Tesla will follow through on their promise.

 

[hcsharp]

Well done ... Tesla Made Better - The CAN - Roadster to J1772 or Model S/X connector

Thanks! Actually there are now 3 versions of the CAN adapter. For a little over a year I've been making an EU version that allows charging a Roadster from the ubiquitous European Type2 three-phase charging stations.

 

[wk057]

We're sorry too that the Roadster was left behind, as you put it. Fortunately it was an unintended oversight and the situation is only temporary. The Gen2 wall chargers that are sold for home or public use don't have compatibility issues with my adapter or J1772 vehicles.


The adapter works with the Gen2 wall chargers that anyone can purchase. Tesla has stated unambiguously that they did in fact intend for Roadsters to be able to use the Destination chargers using my adapter. We didn't just hear this from a random tech at a service center. As Bonnie stated, Tesla has purchased a lot of my adapters and use them daily. They also recommend them to a lot of customers although they have stopped short of officially endorsing it for obvious liability reasons. You are correct that making such an adapter is hard to do. I suspect that's why they were happy to see mine, and save their engineering resources for other projects. That's why it cost me so bloody much money to develop it. Oh, and BTW it does contain active electronics. It might seem unlikely to you, and you may ultimately be right, but we've been promised a solution to the compatibility problem and I still have faith that Tesla will follow through on their promise.

Your adapter definitely seems to be the exception. It would be nice if Tesla had an official stance on the Roadster's use of destination chargers, however. As far as non-Tesla vehicles go, though, I still firmly believe the Tesla networks are not for them.

I suppose you could easily sip some power from the AC lines for active circuitry once things are active, but the 1kohm impedance on the pilot signal would seem to make powering anything active before getting the EVSE activated would be difficult, unless there's something about the Roadster's charge port that I'm unaware of.

 

[bonnie]

We're sorry too that the Roadster was left behind, as you put it. Fortunately it was an unintended oversight and the situation is only temporary. The Gen2 wall chargers that are sold for home or public use don't have compatibility issues with my adapter or J1772 vehicles.


The adapter works with the Gen2 wall chargers that anyone can purchase. Tesla has stated unambiguously that they did in fact intend for Roadsters to be able to use the Destination chargers using my adapter. We didn't just hear this from a random tech at a service center. As Bonnie stated, Tesla has purchased a lot of my adapters and use them daily. They also recommend them to a lot of customers although they have stopped short of officially endorsing it for obvious liability reasons. You are correct that making such an adapter is hard to do. I suspect that's why they were happy to see mine, and save their engineering resources for other projects. That's why it cost me so bloody much money to develop it. Oh, and BTW it does contain active electronics. It might seem unlikely to you, and you may ultimately be right, but we've been promised a solution to the compatibility problem and I still have faith that Tesla will follow through on their promise.

Since Henry won't brag on this like he should, I will.

Back when the CAN SR was first developed, I was at a party where I showed it to some very senior Tesla execs. They were wowed. And *borrowed* it from me for a few weeks to show around internally. They were impressed with the engineering and applauded Henry for making the destination charging system available to Roadster owners. They were pleased with the CAN SR because it allowed (their words) their most valued customers to have access to charging on the road. Tesla is well aware that in the early days, Roadster owners built out networks on their own dime that Tesla execs also used for travel.

Henry is 100% correct when he states that Tesla does intend for the Roadster and Gen 2 public Destination chargers be compatible - the lack of compatibility with some was truly an oversight that will be corrected.

They've circled back more than once on other compatibility issues for the Roadster - one software upgrade was the result of my discovery that the J1772 Roadster adapter wouldn't work if there was a 80amp (or greater) pilot signal. (This was before the Destination Charging network was ever announced.) I reported the anomaly, it was reproducible, about six months later Roadster owners had a sw upgrade. And that upgrade was necessary to be able to work with future 80amp Destination chargers.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Just my opinion here, but if I came to a destination charger that were in use by a non-Tesla I'd be no more bothered than if it were in use by a Tesla. Driving electric and not running out of magic pixies is still quite a challenge compared to driving on gas, and I empathize with anyone who drives an EV. I figure we're all in this together, and as long as the property where the destination charger is installed is okay with it I don't see a problem with it at all.

Also, welcome to the forum! We take all kinds here, so don't worry about what you have parked in your garage. That drop-top on your Smart looks awesome, I've gotta admit I'm a tad jealous.

Thanks for the welcome. Yah we love our little smart. When we replaced our last oil burner I wanted one of the new 2017 Electric smarts but she decided that one of our two vehicles has to have 5 seats so we got the new leaf. Great car as well but still love driving the smart.

 

[daniel]

The bottom line is that the owner of a charger gets to decide who is allowed to use it. If a restaurant wants to offer charging to customers only, they can. If an owner hates red cars he can disallow red cars. If Tesla owns a charger they can say "Teslas only" or they can invite all cars and if they want to charge different rates, they can.

I feel strongly that electrification of transportation is highly desirable for society, and so I wish that EV drivers would treat all other EV drivers as sisters and brothers. We can argue the merits of different cars and companies until the cows come home, but I'd like us to accept each other as equals, and welcome each other at the charging stations.

Full disclosure: I don't take road trips in my Roadster so I charge only at home. But if there were superchargers on the routes I take for my annual hiking trip I would use them and my Model 3, once I have it. Sadly, I don't expect superchargers on those routes (secondary roads) in what remains of the time I have left before I'm too decrepit to hike.