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Not a joke thread; do I need to add a blade disconnect for a Gen 3 HPWC (60A)?

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,032
610
East Bay NorCal
I'm still fishing out there to find quotes to install a Gen 3 HPWC with a 60A breaker (I don't have a Tesla; so consider me a newb/idiot on charging).

Previously, I had a few quotes; but those installers wouldn't put the breaker for the HPWC on the backup side of the Gateway.

But now I got a couple more quotes, and I'm not kidding, the installers say I need to put a blade disconnect within line of sight of the HPWC. Is this some stupid joke? Like are there lots of NorCal electricians on TMC who ready my threads and learn to screw with me?

I'm inquiring with Contra Costa County to see if a LOTO clip on the 60A two pole is sufficient for a disconnecting means under NEC 625.42. Although I thought that rule only kicked in for OCPDs that are greater than 60A and the Gen 3 HPWC needs exactly 60A OCPD (and operates at a max of 48A continuous).

But maybe blade disconnects are common for Tesla chargers in NorCal (Contra Costa County)? Does anyone here have a blade disconnect next to their HPWC?

#wtfihatedisconnects

1615596854836.png
 

aesculus

Still Trying to Figure This All Out
May 31, 2015
4,331
2,469
Northern California
I have a sub panel about 2 feet above my HPWC that has a breaker in it for the HPWC. I think you just need some sort of disconnect device. But check with your local building department. They are the ones that make the determination on what is acceptable.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,622
263
auburn, ca
I'm still fishing out there to find quotes to install a Gen 3 HPWC with a 60A breaker (I don't have a Tesla; so consider me a newb/idiot on charging).

Previously, I had a few quotes; but those installers wouldn't put the breaker for the HPWC on the backup side of the Gateway.

But now I got a couple more quotes, and I'm not kidding, the installers say I need to put a blade disconnect within line of sight of the HPWC. Is this some stupid joke? Like are there lots of NorCal electricians on TMC who ready my threads and learn to screw with me?

I'm inquiring with Contra Costa County to see if a LOTO clip on the 60A two pole is sufficient for a disconnecting means under NEC 625.42. Although I thought that rule only kicked in for OCPDs that are greater than 60A and the Gen 3 HPWC needs exactly 60A OCPD (and operates at a max of 48A continuous).

But maybe blade disconnects are common for Tesla chargers in NorCal (Contra Costa County)? Does anyone here have a blade disconnect next to their HPWC?

#wtfihatedisconnects

View attachment 643968
Man, do you have a target on your back?
 

jboy210

Supporting Member
Dec 2, 2016
4,838
2,972
Northern California
In Pleasanton, we run our HPWC at 50 Amps and just use a regular double breaker in the panel. We felt any speed gain was not worth any additional hassle the electrician mentioned we might run into if we went higher. After all, this is for overnight charging. Most nights it finishes in under 2 hours since we don't usually drive that far in a single day.
 
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holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,032
610
East Bay NorCal
In Pleasanton, we run our HPWC at 50 Amps and just use a regular double breaker in the panel. We felt any speed gain was not worth any additional hassle the electrician mentioned we might run into if we went higher. After all, this is for overnight charging. Most nights it finishes in under 2 hours since we don't usually drive that far in a single day.


Do you mean you have a 50A OCPD or do you have a Gen 2 HPWC and have it running at only 50A continuous charge?
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,032
610
East Bay NorCal
Man, do you have a target on your back?


No, but I think another blade disconnect is in my future. You still have the most though.

PS, the Tesla Tax sucks... $2,800 for just the labor/permitting to install a HPWC and I still have to supply my own charger. And the County makes a homeowner type in workers comp insurance data and attestations to submit for their own permit. Everybody seems to overcharge (pun) once Tesla is involved. And I'm still not 100% sure they'll put this on the backup side of the gateway... they want to do a site visit before committing.
 
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jboy210

Supporting Member
Dec 2, 2016
4,838
2,972
Northern California
Do you mean you have a 50A OCPD or do you have a Gen 2 HPWC and have it running at only 50A continuous charge?
Not quite sure about your terms and I made a mistake on the charging rate of cars. Gen 2 HPWC. We have two 50A breakers in main panel which is backed up by PWs. The cars are set to charge at 40A.
 
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wwhitney

Member
Nov 2, 2017
766
924
Berkeley, CA
California is under the 2017 NEC, where the article on disconnecting means for EVs reads:

"625.43 Disconnecting Means. For equipment rated more than 60 amperes or more than 150 volts to ground, the disconnecting means shall be provided and installed in a readily accessible location. The disconnecting means shall be lockable open in accordance with 110.25."

A 240V EVSE on a 120V/240V system (typical residential) is 120V to ground; thus if it is 60 amps or less, no disconnecting means is required.

If a disconnecting means were required (say, a 70A EVSE), the requirement is just that it be readily accessible, without nothing about being in proximity or sight of the EVSE. So the disconnecting means can just be the branch circuit breaker, wherever it is located. The lockability requirement can be satisfied by adding a permanent breaker lock to the branch circuit breaker (the kind held in place by the panel cover).

Cheers, Wayne
 
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holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,032
610
East Bay NorCal
Thanks Wayne - I hope to see you on Jeopardy one day and the column of clues comes up as "NEC codes".

I left a message with the Contra Costa County permitting hotline to see if they're fine having the lockability of either the breaker with a LOTO clip or the lockability of the sub-panel cover itself to satisfy this requirement. Or if I'm going to have another blade disconnect in my future.

The inspector that has now come to my house 4 times to inspect the PV+ESS said to stop bugging him directly :p
 

wwhitney

Member
Nov 2, 2017
766
924
Berkeley, CA
the lockability of the sub-panel cover itself
That's generally not accepted, there should be permanent provisions to lock the breaker itself. But your EVSE is 60 amps so it doesn't require a disconnect. Not sure why you say "Or if I'm going to have another blade disconnect in my future."

Cheers, Wayne
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,032
610
East Bay NorCal
That's generally not accepted, there should be permanent provisions to lock the breaker itself. But your EVSE is 60 amps so it doesn't require a disconnect. Not sure why you say "Or if I'm going to have another blade disconnect in my future."

Cheers, Wayne


The County has a permitting hotline to ask questions; although they haven't responded to me for my last two inquiries. If the County gets back to me, I have a sinking feeling the County is going to tell me to put another blade disconnect on my wall just because it's "the safest option". Lives are at stake; they can only be saved with disconnects.

And, I'm guessing these electricians are charging folks to put a blade disconnect within line of sight of the HPWC because it makes them more money.
 

wwhitney

Member
Nov 2, 2017
766
924
Berkeley, CA
All you need to ask is "have you amended CEC 625.43?" If no, then no disconnect is required. You can tell that to the everyone involved and show them the printed text if necessary.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,622
263
auburn, ca
The County has a permitting hotline to ask questions; although they haven't responded to me for my last two inquiries. If the County gets back to me, I have a sinking feeling the County is going to tell me to put another blade disconnect on my wall just because it's "the safest option". Lives are at stake; they can only be saved with disconnects.

And, I'm guessing these electricians are charging folks to put a blade disconnect within line of sight of the HPWC because it makes them more money.
personally, I have no issues with having all the disconnects. If it makes things safer fine with me
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,032
610
East Bay NorCal
personally, I have no issues with having all the disconnects. If it makes things safer fine with me


Yeah, except these disconnects are like $800 parts + labor cost to install. 4x of these bastards is like a trip to Hawaii, a PS5 and a ton of games, or three NEM2-MT interconnection fees. I'd rather have the money in my pocket instead of on my garage wall. And I don't think they're safer... but whatever.
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,032
610
East Bay NorCal
All you need to ask is "have you amended CEC 625.43?" If no, then no disconnect is required. You can tell that to the everyone involved and show them the printed text if necessary.

Cheers, Wayne


Huh - turns out CoCo has a permit checklist for EV charging stations. My new inspector buddy (sarcasm, I don't think he likes visiting this house) forwarded me this link.


Guess I just need to convince my installer to take out the damn blade disconnect.

#happydance

1615673176618.png
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,622
263
auburn, ca
Yeah, except these disconnects are like $800 parts + labor cost to install. 4x of these bastards is like a trip to Hawaii, a PS5 and a ton of games, or three NEM2-MT interconnection fees. I'd rather have the money in my pocket instead of on my garage wall. And I don't think they're safer... but whatever.
I have 8 disconnects now. I want 10 :)
 

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