Not a so thriving future for Polestar?

Polestar is still an new company, and like many other EV car makers it is not so easy to become profitable.

Tesla had a rough start too, but regarding Polestar, Kevin Paffrath, in his today analysis
don't think that Polestar will have a very thriving future.

Well, some his financials arguments go well above my head,
But been under Volvo and Geely, make Polestar to be still a valid contender.
What do you think?

The Fundamentals of This "Tesla Killer" Exposed | Polestar Stock.

 

[scratch]

He makes good points about the charging network and the technology. 3.9% profit is well below other EV makers.

I didn't understand his point about financing. Does Polestar finance buyers themselves?

 

[Watts_Up]

He makes good points about the charging network and the technology. 3.9% profit is well below other EV makers.

I didn't understand his point about financing. Does Polestar finance buyers themselves?

Kevin was often puzzle about the naming of some of the given numbers.

He mentionned that lowering the liability because the stock value going down was a little bit tricky.

 

[scratch]

I guess I'm not surprised to learn the net profit is so low.

Polestar, Rivian, Fisker, etc - seem to emphasize design over functionality as companies. They want you buying for how others perceive the car instead of for what it can do. This likely cuts out some potential customers, especially those who understand how small the differences are between each of them.

The roll out of the Polestar 3 was strange. There were images of a car under a tarp, contained in a box on an island. There was a countdown timer to the big unveiling event. There was a lot of PR, mostly focused on how much better the new thing was over everything that proceeded it.

In the meantime, try finding out about the Polestar 2. Their website had maybe 250 words total describing the car. As someone who was new to the brand, I had no clue what I would be paying for aside from the fact it was electric, had 4 wheels and Europeans like it.

Still don't know why anyone would buy one. At least with Fisker, they have their own Solar Roof.

 

[yessuz]

Plenty of Polestar 2s in Europe.

Decent cars and good contender to tesla model 3

 

[sleepydoc]

Plenty of Polestar 2s in Europe.

Decent cars and good contender to tesla model 3

Yeah, but it's a '2.' The Tesla's a '3!'

 

[RobStark]

Polestar, Rivian, Fisker, etc - seem to emphasize design over functionality as companies.

Rivian is all about offroad ability and as a result of that suspension articulation is supper comfortable. It out offroads and outcomforts Model X by a country mile.

Polestar emphasis is performance and safety plus sustainable production.

And like many European brands performance doesn't simply mean 0-60.

 

[heltok]

When you look at the different programs it's pretty obvious that Musk's goal has been to make millions of EVs that perform well at a broad range of metrics produced at a low cost. Meanwhile the competition seems to be totally okay with making few EVs and prioritise having a luxury feeling, some character/soul that stand out on one or a few metrics while keeping true to their history and traditions. And the results are as expected.

 

[gsmith123]

Polestar 2 and 3 seem very... OK... to me. They're certainly not terrible, but all the key EV specs seems just a bit worse than Tesla. Range, efficiency, price, acceleration, etc.

For instance the Polestar 2 Long Range dual motor has an EPA range of 260 miles, 76kWh battery, 4.2s 0-60, meh charge curve (150kw peak) and MSRP of $52k. None of these are really deal breakers but all of them are worse than my 2019 Model (with 38k miles on the clock!). For comparison, my car: 280 mile EPA range accounting for battery degradation (to be fair Tesla's EPA ranges may be more ambitious than Polestar), 68kwh usable capacity left, <3.9 sec 0-60, 250kw peak charge speed (it can absolutely still hit than after 3 years).

It just seems meh that they're not even breaking even with a 4 year old Tesla. If they really nailed everything else about the car (interior quality, handle, comfort, NVH, etc) I don't think any of these things would be a major problem but it's certainly starting from behind.

It's kind of disappointing. I really want to like the Polestar (or other cars like the Subaru Solterra) but they need to get their ducks in a row for basic EV functionality that Tesla has been polishing for years.

 

[Hiline]

When you look at the different programs it's pretty obvious that Musk's goal has been to make millions of EVs that perform well at a broad range of metrics produced at a low cost. Meanwhile the competition seems to be totally okay with making few EVs and prioritise having a luxury feeling, some character/soul that stand out on one or a few metrics while keeping true to their history and traditions. And the results are as expected.

Tesla’s end game has always been to sell software. They’re willing to cut profit and skimp on bells and whistles to out-produce and out-sell all competitors. Then they can sell software to 50% of all drivers while the other 50% stick with the niche features that the other automakers offer. And then Tesla will capture 75% of all EV profit, just like Apple does with smartphone.

 

[heltok]

Tesla’s end game has always been to sell software. They’re willing to cut profit and skimp on bells and whistles to out-produce and out-sell all competitors. Then they can sell software to 50% of all drivers while the other 50% stick with the niche features that the other automakers offer. And then Tesla will capture 75% of all EV profit, just like Apple does with smartphone.

Still their profit is the highest in the industry even without software. Because they had to cut cost super hard to make mass market EVs a possibility in the first place. Now they have cost cutting in their DNA and have just kept going with it to the point that they can make cars for less than the competition while still having high positive margins when the competition struggle with getting positive margins.

Competition needs to have do many of the things Tesla did. The time to do it was 2012, not 2022 when Model S won car of the year award it was obv what the future was and they should have made a herculean effort at learning everything they could from Tesla and make sure they did that and better. Get rid of dealership networks, simplify number of models and permutations of options, gigacastings, cylindrical cells etc etc. Now it's too late, they will die. Some slowly, some faster. They just cannot compete on cost or performance at any profitable price.

 

[Dikkie Dik]

Rivian is all about offroad ability and as a result of that suspension articulation is supper comfortable. It out offroads and outcomforts Model X by a country mile.

Polestar emphasis is performance and safety plus sustainable production.

And like many European brands performance
doesn't simply mean 0-60.

Technically Polestar is Chinese.

Owned by Volvo which is 82% owned by Geely. They do have their headquarters in Goteborg Sweden but production is 100% Chinese.

They do their best to push that European ‘je ne sais quoi’ though

 

[Watts_Up]

Technically Polestar is Chinese.

Owned by Volvo which is 82% owned by Geely. They do have their headquarters in Goteborg Sweden but production is 100% Chinese.

They do their best to push that European ‘je ne sais quoi’ though

How much US Import taxes do the Polestar, the Volvo, and any other Chinese Cars get?

Elon Musk sides with Trump on trade with China, citing 25% import duty on American cars

Elon Musk believes China isn't playing fair in the car trade with the U.S.

www.cnbc.com

 

[yessuz]

Polestar 2 and 3 seem very... OK... to me. They're certainly not terrible, but all the key EV specs seems just a bit worse than Tesla. Range, efficiency, price, acceleration, etc.

For instance the Polestar 2 Long Range dual motor has an EPA range of 260 miles, 76kWh battery, 4.2s 0-60, meh charge curve (150kw peak) and MSRP of $52k. None of these are really deal breakers but all of them are worse than my 2019 Model (with 38k miles on the clock!). For comparison, my car: 280 mile EPA range accounting for battery degradation (to be fair Tesla's EPA ranges may be more ambitious than Polestar), 68kwh usable capacity left, <3.9 sec 0-60, 250kw peak charge speed (it can absolutely still hit than after 3 years).

It just seems meh that they're not even breaking even with a 4 year old Tesla. If they really nailed everything else about the car (interior quality, handle, comfort, NVH, etc) I don't think any of these things would be a major problem but it's certainly starting from behind.

It's kind of disappointing. I really want to like the Polestar (or other cars like the Subaru Solterra) but they need to get their ducks in a row for basic EV functionality that Tesla has been polishing for years.

Agree at some extent...

But at the same time: is that 0.3 sec thwt important or even noticeable?
Polestar interior quality is just better though

 

[KJD]

Tesla did not make any money in 2012 either. They seem to have survived and thrived just fine.

 

[heltok]

Tesla did not make any money in 2012 either. They seem to have survived and thrived just fine.

But Tesla did not have Tesla making 1.8M EVs/year as competition. Tesla managed to beat the odds because they lacked competition and could learn while exploiting the early adopters and they burned a lot of cash while learning. Good luck for the competition, they will need it!

 

[sleepydoc]

But Tesla did not have Tesla making 1.8M EVs/year as competition. Tesla managed to beat the odds because they lacked competition and could learn while exploiting the early adopters and they burned a lot of cash while learning. Good luck for the competition, they will need it!

Exactly - the market is very different now than it was 10 years ago, both in terms of competition and consumer expectations.

 

[gsmith123]

Agree at some extent...

But at the same time: is that 0.3 sec thwt important or even noticeable?
Polestar interior quality is just better though

0.3 sec is pretty negligible difference for the AWD trims. I only mention it to show that Tesla is beating on the more important metrics (range, charging) without sacrificing performance.

The FWD Polestar 2 on the other hand though... $48,400 for a front wheel drive 7 sec 0-60 car. That's substantially worse than a Model 3 SR RWD or the (no longer available in the US) RWD Model Y. And the FWD Polestar only gets 10 more miles of range than the AWD version.

 

[heltok]

The polestar 2 might look like a Model 3 alternative. And maybe it has slightly better interior and some other metrics. But it lacks a good supercharger network, really good autopilot, OTA quickly improving the safety of the car etc. It's like you get one point more in one category but get 3 points less in 3 other categories.

Some people will buy a Polestar because they don't want the same car as everyone else. But then they will be standing next to the highway trying to get their charger to work and regret their decision and 3 years later they will buy the Tesla. But these people are in the minority, the majority is perfectly happy to have same car as everyone else as long as it's a better car.

 

[yessuz]

The polestar 2 might look like a Model 3 alternative. And maybe it has slightly better interior and some other metrics. But it lacks a good supercharger network, really good autopilot, OTA quickly improving the safety of the car etc. It's like you get one point more in one category but get 3 points less in 3 other categories.

Some people will buy a Polestar because they don't want the same car as everyone else. But then they will be standing next to the highway trying to get their charger to work and regret their decision and 3 years later they will buy the Tesla. But these people are in the minority, the majority is perfectly happy to have same car as everyone else as long as it's a better car.

Tesla has already opened the Supercharger Network to non-tesla vehicles in few European countries and I would suspect that this will be coming everywhere else soon as well. This is another revenue stream for Tesla (and regulatory requirement in some cases) and very good looking for Tesla with latest power prices (and some shady practice due to this..).

Autopilot on Tesla is actually one of the worst implementation of such system on the market, and Polestar's implementation of the "autopilot" is way better. like miles ahead (same as bmw, mercedes, VW group, ford...)
How did the OTA improve the safety of the car?! Polestar, like other manufacturers, do the OTA updates as well, by the way.