I'd agree there has been a change in the algorithm. But I don't have hard numbers from previous releases unfortunately. I can confirm a gradual increase from 0C to 20C, then from 20C to 25C it takes off. You get about 50% regen back at 20C then 100% by 25C. I think the issue people are seeing is the change in max regen increase with temperature. With temps here in Illinois, it takes about an hour drive in order to warm up to 25C from a 5C cold pack.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Not having regen after the last software update sucks
- Thread starter PhilDavid
- Start date
I captured data before and after the update and I posted about the result here:
Not having regen after the last software update sucks
They also increased the temperature for max supercharging speed by 3 degree C. AND they significantly changed the charging behavior when the battery is cold. It now takes longer for the battery even starts to charge. Beofre it would gradually ease in as the battery warmed up. Now it doesn't charge until the battery has aprox 8 C, then it starts charging at (up to) 10 kW.
David, can I ask what your Max regen value is? Interesting to note your graph shows you hitting 100 around 22C, while it's taking me till about 24.5C to hit 100kwh. Is 100 on your graph 100kwh?
In response to the linked post, I'm not surprised in the slightest. Have a lot of history with lithium chemistry batteries. We stopped using Li-Ions for hobby purposes 10-12 years ago because of their poor performance and longevity. I was honestly shocked to see the real life numbers that my P90D is pulling at full throttle. It doesn't shock me at all that these things are going to die the way they're being used. It also doesn't shock me that my P90D can't do 0-60 in 2.8 anymore. Not when the voltage per cell drops to 2.8 under load, and don't look at the cell balance. That's a sure sign that the draw is far too high for the given capacity. Lithium polymers would have been a MUCH more compact and performant choice. Safer, not so much. But I digress. Yes they changed it, IMO too late though. This should have been done 6 years ago. Along with limiting supercharging to the battery's capacity. Shouldn't really be charging Li-Ions above a 1C rate, 0.5C is recommended max. 125kwh into what's called a 85kwh pack is a recipe for a dead battery.
In response to the linked post, I'm not surprised in the slightest. Have a lot of history with lithium chemistry batteries. We stopped using Li-Ions for hobby purposes 10-12 years ago because of their poor performance and longevity. I was honestly shocked to see the real life numbers that my P90D is pulling at full throttle. It doesn't shock me at all that these things are going to die the way they're being used. It also doesn't shock me that my P90D can't do 0-60 in 2.8 anymore. Not when the voltage per cell drops to 2.8 under load, and don't look at the cell balance. That's a sure sign that the draw is far too high for the given capacity. Lithium polymers would have been a MUCH more compact and performant choice. Safer, not so much. But I digress. Yes they changed it, IMO too late though. This should have been done 6 years ago. Along with limiting supercharging to the battery's capacity. Shouldn't really be charging Li-Ions above a 1C rate, 0.5C is recommended max. 125kwh into what's called a 85kwh pack is a recipe for a dead battery.
Yes 100 kW is the maximum. That's what the BMS sets as the limit. In reality you never get that high, though. The highest I was ever able to measure was 72 kW for a short moment when I let go of the pedal quickly while going at 100 mph. Usually the car does just over 60 kW. So there is the max regen limit set by the BMS (which is shown in the graph) bu the car will usually stay below it. For example when the battery is charged over 90%, the BMS might say 32 kW is the max, but the car will only allow aprox 12-15 kW.
I agree about the battery limits. Tesla has definitely been pushing the limits too much and they are seeing the damage now in the early battery packs. As a bandaid they are artificially limiting the charge level, reduce charge rates, reduce power when cold, cool down the battery more when going over 80% and so on.
Right, can't charge it over 4.2 per cell regardless of what the BMS says. Which get's back to the point I was making about voltage drop. Same applies in the reverse. I've seen almost 100kw come out of the motors, but you need to factor in losses back into the battery along with any systems that are being powered. Would LOVE to find out where the multiple kW variance I'm seeing is going. No way it's only going to heat.
Was just curious because of the temperature differences. I've verified multiple times in the last couple of weeks that I need to get to at least 25C to get to 100kw max regen.
I also noticed on my wife's 2016 model X, my 2018 model S, and my wife just got a brand new 2020 model x LR. We haven noticed decreased regen braking on all of them, and yes at 80% or less, and we are in San Diego, so no cold to blame.
lumoart
Member
Hmmmm...am I understanding this correct, Tesla is limiting the charging/ draw / regen/ heating of our battery packs because they have realized that the gen1 batteries (18650) are slowly showing signs of capacity loss? Artificially limiting everything through SW Updates?
I have noticed on my August 2015 Model S P90DL since the switch from V8-V9 a significant drop in power output in 0-60mph...it used to be just under 3sec, now it's more like 4.2sec and dropping
In cold weather conditions I get a mere 200mile range with 80% charge, also the SC Rate dropped from previous 120kW to about 92kW (tappering off gradually at about 45% SoC to 87....75.....65....42 and so forth..). The Tesla experience is definitely not the same as it used to be when I bought the car. I do understand that the BMS is an important part for the longevity of the battery pack, however Tesla promised an 8 Year warranty (battery and motors) and therefore should hold up the promise on their end.
I am rather disappointed about Tesla not telling us before installing those updates and being honest on why they had to limit all these things.
Me and my buddy did a Guinness world record attempt in 2016 and definitely know our cars. (www.electrifiedrecord.com).
Isn't there anything that we can do to get back what we purchased initially?
Slowly getting a feeling of being left out in the cold since those Model3s started hitting the road...
Cheers Anton
I have noticed on my August 2015 Model S P90DL since the switch from V8-V9 a significant drop in power output in 0-60mph...it used to be just under 3sec, now it's more like 4.2sec and dropping
In cold weather conditions I get a mere 200mile range with 80% charge, also the SC Rate dropped from previous 120kW to about 92kW (tappering off gradually at about 45% SoC to 87....75.....65....42 and so forth..). The Tesla experience is definitely not the same as it used to be when I bought the car. I do understand that the BMS is an important part for the longevity of the battery pack, however Tesla promised an 8 Year warranty (battery and motors) and therefore should hold up the promise on their end.
I am rather disappointed about Tesla not telling us before installing those updates and being honest on why they had to limit all these things.
Me and my buddy did a Guinness world record attempt in 2016 and definitely know our cars. (www.electrifiedrecord.com).
Isn't there anything that we can do to get back what we purchased initially?
Slowly getting a feeling of being left out in the cold since those Model3s started hitting the road...
Cheers Anton
My biggest beef with this is lack of info from Tesla - some kind of honest release note saying what they did and why. Feels like what Apple did with the older phone batteries, hoping no one would notice? I'd like to know how this affects range, and if they also did something to max power, as my car sure doesn't feel like it can still do 0-60 in 4.1s, even with temps in the 70's (which we had here last week).
Also, 40.50.1 did reduce the appearance of the yellow dots in 60 degree F range, but the regen doesn't feel like it got better than 40.2. Almost like they just changed the display, rather than the regen curve itself.
Also, 40.50.1 did reduce the appearance of the yellow dots in 60 degree F range, but the regen doesn't feel like it got better than 40.2. Almost like they just changed the display, rather than the regen curve itself.
After a couple of weeks of being aware of this issue and living with it in our cold weather, today was anomalously warm here. The low temperature overnight was 47F, but it rapidly warmed up today until afternoon temps were in the 60s! I did not use the car until about 2 PM. despite the warm air temp, and despite having had several hours of exposure to the relatively warm air, I still had limited regen ( at least 4 bars, I think) at the start of a short local trip. I drove something like 10 miles over an hour or so, in 2 trips, and never entirely got all my regen back. That's a bit discouraging on such a warm day.
The low tonight is predicted to be 63, with tomorrow's afternoon high about 66F. it will be interesting to see if and how much the regen recovers. In the past, I have seen my first regen restrictions when overnight temps are in the 40s and daytime temps are in the low 50s or less. If that has changed, it will be a big change in how much of the year we see regen limitations.
The low tonight is predicted to be 63, with tomorrow's afternoon high about 66F. it will be interesting to see if and how much the regen recovers. In the past, I have seen my first regen restrictions when overnight temps are in the 40s and daytime temps are in the low 50s or less. If that has changed, it will be a big change in how much of the year we see regen limitations.
dark cloud
Active Member
Might be an option if you are near a supercharger; again I don't know what the radius is for navigate to supercharger preheat, but is anyone able to tell me how to keep the car in start mode without being in it?
Less regen on 2019.40.2?
Less regen on 2019.40.2?
I just tested it this morning. I put the supercharger into the navigation but the car didn't start the battery heater until I was about 15 min away. I believe it is not about distance, but time. The car knows how long it will take to warm up the pack to the temperature target and starts it just in time to finish when you arrive.
Well, I am pleased to report that the car had no regen restrictions this morning. The ambient temperature was in the low 60s when I started the car, and the low temp overnight had been 62. So the battery must have been warmed up enough sometime from yesterday afternoon, with temps of 60 or more in the 12-15 hours in between. It was very windy, so that would have aided heat transfer from the air to the battery.
Back to normal winter tomorrow, though....
2019 Raven S here, on the latest version (2019.40.50.7). I noticed reduced regen during early mornings but it isn't as bad as what others are saying. I don't need to wait for 20 or 25 degree Celsius temperatures, or is that referring to the battery's temperature? The BMS didn't appear to trigger battery warming when outside was in the 50s F (11-12 degrees C) and my Wh/m stayed low. I drove for about 10 minutes and had full regen:
Yes the temperatures mentioned were battery temperature, not ambient. The car doesn't show battery temperature to the user. You would need a CAN bus read for it. Depending on when, how much and when charging finished in the morning you might have a battery warm enough not to show much or any regen limit. For example I had my car outside over night for 12 hours and it was freezing (-2 C / 30 F). I started charging at 2 am and it just finished at 9 am in the morning. The battery temperature was 20 C and I had virtually no regen limit. Outside temperature doesn't mean much if you drive or charge the car.
Thanks, David, that makes sense...except last week I went three days without having to charge at home and regen was only temporarily reduced in the morning. Garage was 60 degrees (~15 degrees C for the battery during roughly 8-10 hours overnight). I usually get full regen back after driving for 10-15 minutes in the morning despite mornings being between 45-52 degrees F (7-11 degrees C) and the battery not being warmed up overnight. The change to regen hasn't had much of an impact to me so far.
I too had full regen today after driving for just about 10 minutes which used to be the case until the recent software change so I'm happy to have full regen after a bit of driving.
What a huge difference having full regen makes! It doesn't seem like something is majorly off with the car when regen is limited!
dark cloud
Active Member
So, can anyone confirm better regen and overall consumption if above version 40.2.1 on MCU1 car? I have now seen several different situations and still see limited regen regardless if charged prior my drive or just turning climate control on for hoping any battery heating. My drives are short, I can’t get more than half and hour trip and this does not remove limitation on car. If I plug in for 30-40min before leaving home then there is only 4-5 yellow dashes still visible. If doing 40min warming-up via app in mornings this has no result at all. First gain is seen after about 17min. drive. If returning home after my work I usually use UMC to prepare for drive but regardless of charging time I still see 4-5 yellow dashed lines. Additionally I haven’t understand the logic behind Tesla’s new “Depart at” function, I have lost my confidence with that. Car is 2016 70D, ambient temp. have been above or at zero degrees. I charge to 90% of SOC.
@nem3 what is the gadget that gives your excellent readings on your phone...
@nem3 what is the gadget that gives your excellent readings on your phone...
Last edited:
dark cloud
Active Member
Yeah, I am not sure anymore. I am thinking it just came on in my garage because it was very cold, I think about -5 C, and would have come on anyway regardless of the supercharger destination. Yesterday the car was already warm; as warm as it could be in -17 Celsius weather, and I confirmed the battery warmer was not on driving the car. I drove to the supercharger with it as a destination in the nav. With the phone app on and checking the battery warmer icon came on when I was just under 10 km away, which is a lot closer than 15 min., and then it went out when I was 1.5 km away, but I think because the SOC fell below 20%.
But then did it come on because of the supercharger destination? or did the temperature of the battery fall too low because of driving at 110km/h in -17 weather? No way of knowing. I guess I could have pulled off the highway and played with turning off the supercharger destination and checking the app, but didn't.
