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Not so sure anymore if I should get the P100D when I read all these threads...

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My service experience has also been terrific. I drove an M3 in the 90s and had a very good experience with BMW service The Tesla experience has been a little better.

The way I see it when you buy the P100D you're paying for the engineering and performance of the vehicle itself. 2.5 sec 0-60, are you kidding me? The third fastest production car ever built and it's a five-passenger sedan that doesn't use gas or pollute the environment (much)? Those details alone are worth the $150k to me, if only I had $150k to spend on a car...

What the $150k does not buy is a white glove treatment, ultra refined interior, that kind of luxury. Your choice. I'll say that my P85+ has been amazing and puts a smile on my face every day.
 
Similar story here: my SC experience have always been good to very good - I never had anything else than a Tesla loaner when servicing my car and a couple of times they came home with a flat bed truck to take it and bring it back late at night to accommodate my schedule.
Now I don't have the experience of a luxury Mercedes treatment neither, but I've driven their cars and there is no way in the world I'll ever go back to driving ICE. As said before if 'luxury' is your thing stay with the germans. AP even in v1 is a game changer on highway driving and stop-and-go traffic, my only regret is that I waited too long to upgrade to it.
 
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So, I'm about to lease a P100D ($150,000) and I'm exited about it. Well, I was...until I started doing my research. I'm unsure for a couple reasons. The main reason is the delay of AP update info. IMHO this tweet by the CEO was completely unprofessional. But what's worse is that no one followed up that tweet. Or have you guys heard from anyone at Tesla? I'm not interested in the car at all if Autopilot will be limited in the update.
The way Tesla handles their news releases is more amateur than a 3 person web design shop. What are they thinking? Is it a bunch of millennials playing Pokemon all day? Certainly not the head PR guy, because he left yesterday...
How about a courtesy update?

Another reason is the switch from being a long time BMW, Mercedes, Porsche customer and about the Tesla customer service experience. I have read many scary reports of customers whose Teslas are in repair for weeks and weeks, and they get handed some shitty rental car and are told to wait....

When I buy a $150k Mercedes or BMW, then I get extremely good treatment. I get a luxury car as a loaner, they even drive me home, and so on. The car will be fixed the fastest time possible and even hardcore problems don't take longer than a week to get fixed. Their parts system is superb, their logistics work and I have my car back in no time. In the meantime I have an equally good car from the same manufacturer at my disposal. Every single time.
The service is very good with a car in the 50's k price range, and superb in the 150k range. It's like getting a room in a grand hotel. You are getting VIP treatment if you spend the money for the top suite.

Not to with Tesla. Tesla treats everyone the same, they told me. Sounds great, but this means that p100D owners don't get superior but only mediocre service, otherwise it's not sustainable.
As an example, I still need to pay $100 for Tesla to tow my 150k Tesla to service. And I don't get a comparable luxury Tesla, no, some freaking Enterprise rental car, even though I bought a $150,000 ultra luxury car. And it truly is, because the interior of the 150k Models is, except the seats no different than the 70k Models S. Which is ridiculous imho...

Not only do I get premium service with the Euro Car Companies, but I also get amazing lifestyle offers. As an example, I own a BMW I8, with the I8 came a special club membership that offers amazing events every month. From guest access Coachella and racing at the nearby racetrack to America's cup VIP access to Art Basel Miami access. It's awesome. But that's a whole different story...

To make the long story short, I'm ok to drive a 150k car that has the interior of a 40k car and maybe not exactly the service standard of other manufacturers, as long as I have the current AP in it ( I go skiing every weekend and just want to be a passive driver on the 4 hour *sugar* show back home ).
Owners of P90D who have had other luxury cars before, how satisfied are you with the Tesla ownership when it comes to repair, maintenance,.,. Is it as bad as I think it is, do you have regrets or are you happy, maybe happier than with your former BMW, Mercedes, whatever. Thanks ;O)
I had a 120k Mercedes and serviced it at Mercedes Benz of Westmont (IL). They are the best out of all the dealerships in the area, never had any complaints. I HATED GOING THERE FOR SERVICE - I'm always short on time and between the drive there, getting a loaner, coming back to pick up my car, paperwork etc. I waste about 2 hours every time. That's 2 hours I could spend with my family. How does a fancy waiting area compensate for the lost time and in what universe is this better than Tesla coming to my front door and dropping off a loaner???
 
The Chicago team is excellent! Our two Teslas needed the SC for tires, extra keys and wipers that is it. Class act and no surprises. The driving experience is still not getting old. Cruise in AP and have an in depth conversation with family or in manual pass others on country roads with a massive safe margin. IMHO the service center time is very pleasant but is largely irrelevant to the purchase decision. We used to drive a BMW 740 and the MS is a different planet. I can't imagine anybody regretting a P100D.
 
@Seashepherd I've previously owned BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi and Lexus.

Mercedes and Lexus service were the best by far, BMW and Porsche were ok, Audi was awful. Tesla is between Audi and Porsche. The last time I was in for service they gave me a Buick rental car and it took them two days to install a very simple upgrade. Not impressive.

The Tesla driving experience is far superior to any of them. The Tesla ownership experience, not so much. The much discussed "direct sale" model does not include any customer service, in fact Tesla really has no customer service department at all, it sort of falls in the cracks between stores that only want to sell you a new car, and service centers that are struggling to fix the cars that are out there.

I yielded to the pressure by the store to place an order, only to take delivery two weeks later (great - that was fast) and18hrs before they introduced the refreshed Model S (my "new" car was instantly old). I took the factory tour and they had "technical problems" that prevented us from seeing the MS line when it turns out they were hiding the refreshed cars, very disingenuous and not the way to treat customers.

Ignore their threats and wait until there is an extended quiet period from Elon, at least a month. He loves to pre-announce everything so if he's not saying anything, then chances are there won't be anything new coming out in the next few months.

You are correct to sit on your order until the firmware 8.0 and AP 2.0 story unfolds further, apparently more is to be revealed on Monday.
 
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So, I'm about to lease a P100D ($150,000) and I'm exited about it. Well, I was...until I started doing my research. I'm unsure for a couple reasons. The main reason is the delay of AP update info. IMHO this tweet by the CEO was completely unprofessional. But what's worse is that no one followed up that tweet. Or have you guys heard from anyone at Tesla? I'm not interested in the car at all if Autopilot will be limited in the update.
The way Tesla handles their news releases is more amateur than a 3 person web design shop. What are they thinking? Is it a bunch of millennials playing Pokemon all day? Certainly not the head PR guy, because he left yesterday...
How about a courtesy update?

Another reason is the switch from being a long time BMW, Mercedes, Porsche customer and about the Tesla customer service experience. I have read many scary reports of customers whose Teslas are in repair for weeks and weeks, and they get handed some shitty rental car and are told to wait....

When I buy a $150k Mercedes or BMW, then I get extremely good treatment. I get a luxury car as a loaner, they even drive me home, and so on. The car will be fixed the fastest time possible and even hardcore problems don't take longer than a week to get fixed. Their parts system is superb, their logistics work and I have my car back in no time. In the meantime I have an equally good car from the same manufacturer at my disposal. Every single time.
The service is very good with a car in the 50's k price range, and superb in the 150k range. It's like getting a room in a grand hotel. You are getting VIP treatment if you spend the money for the top suite.

Not to with Tesla. Tesla treats everyone the same, they told me. Sounds great, but this means that p100D owners don't get superior but only mediocre service, otherwise it's not sustainable.
As an example, I still need to pay $100 for Tesla to tow my 150k Tesla to service. And I don't get a comparable luxury Tesla, no, some freaking Enterprise rental car, even though I bought a $150,000 ultra luxury car. And it truly is, because the interior of the 150k Models is, except the seats no different than the 70k Models S. Which is ridiculous imho...

Not only do I get premium service with the Euro Car Companies, but I also get amazing lifestyle offers. As an example, I own a BMW I8, with the I8 came a special club membership that offers amazing events every month. From guest access Coachella and racing at the nearby racetrack to America's cup VIP access to Art Basel Miami access. It's awesome. But that's a whole different story...

To make the long story short, I'm ok to drive a 150k car that has the interior of a 40k car and maybe not exactly the service standard of other manufacturers, as long as I have the current AP in it ( I go skiing every weekend and just want to be a passive driver on the 4 hour *sugar* show back home ).
Owners of P90D who have had other luxury cars before, how satisfied are you with the Tesla ownership when it comes to repair, maintenance,.,. Is it as bad as I think it is, do you have regrets or are you happy, maybe happier than with your former BMW, Mercedes, whatever. Thanks ;O)
Tesla cars are for tech enthusiasts and early adopters.
You have to decide if you want a high tech, ultra fast Tesla, or a comfortable, predictable, luxurious car from an established prestige brand.
A nice problem to have!
 
IMHO this tweet by the CEO was completely unprofessional.

Sorry to say, you'll have to get used to this. Look at it this way. He has so much passion and so many ideas, they overflow and take control of him sometimes. He is also an idealist and doesn't necessarily consider the optics of what he's saying. That can be both good and bad.

I'm not interested in the car at all if Autopilot will be limited in the update.

We will find out on Sunday, but I've read that if you ignore certain Autopilot warnings to put your hands on the wheel, the new OS will disable your ability to use AP until you pull over and put the car into PARK. If true, that's kind of the ultimate nag feature.

Is it a bunch of millennials playing Pokemon all day?

Minecraft.

Certainly not the head PR guy, because he left yesterday...

Yes, I believe Ricardo Reyes has come and gone as many times as Elon Musk has broken up with Talulah Riley. I've worked in startups, when multiple high-level marcom people leave a company, it's typically an indication of problems higher up. Gee I wonder who that could be...

How about a courtesy update?

You mean like a courtesy loaner? You get the Enterprise Rent-a-Car version of a courtesy update! No update for you! lol

I have read many scary reports of customers whose Teslas are in repair for weeks and weeks, and they get handed some shitty rental car and are told to wait....

Don't confuse vehicle repairs with body shop repairs. When your car is in an accident, your insurance company will handle the rental car and it's at their discretion. But as far as shop repairs go, I've always received another Model S loaner every single time without exception.

Tesla treats everyone the same, they told me. Sounds great, but this means that p100D owners don't get superior but only mediocre service, otherwise it's not sustainable.

You had me until this ^^^. You think, as a P100D owner who spent $150,000, you should receive some superior "Captain's Lounge" treatment versus those of us who spent a lowly $85,000? If that's what you are saying, then by all means cancel your Tesla and buy a BMW. With Tesla are paying for features - all of them mostly a-la-carte - you aren't paying for "luxury" or to be placed on a pedestal above other Tesla owners.
 
You're getting the best lane-steering/tacc system money can buy.
Yes Alketi,I'm afraid Tesla will dial back the Ap. They gave me a p90d for a weekend to test. I drove it up to Vail, and it was a game changer because of the AP. On the way up I drove fast, in AP, but hand right at steering wheel. On the way back, in crawling heavy traffic it was absolutely fantastic to let go off the steering wheel and to relax...
The question you should be asking is how big will the upcoming improvements be?

And will you miss out on any major improvements by buying or leasing now? In other words if you wait a few weeks or months would you be able to get a car that supports later generation hardware? If so how long will that be? If it's not available for 18-24 months it's not a big deal.

Note:
Tesla might not provide any of the above information in advance.
 
@Boatguy So, your not talking about a Buick like this then?
1972-buick-gsx-the-most-enigmatic-muscle-car-new-york-muscle-car-and-classic-car-examiner.jpg
 
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I love the service, mostly because I do not have to waste my time taking for oil changes every 3 months, I like the culture of the company, and the only time I needed a service (for 12 V bat), I got a Tesla Model S no problem. Everyone at the SC was just superb. BMW etc. dealerships, actually being dealerships, creep me out and I always take a detour not to get too close.
 
Thanks for the input.
I'm referring to the price tag when I say Luxury. The 100 is certainly in the elite, luxury, 1% whatever you want to call it, class with its price tag. And why would this car not be right for me if I ask about the experiences of other owners?
Let me tell you about my experience today. Tesla offered me an S for this weekend to drive since it's the last weekend before the lease offer ends. No one followed up. I just tried to call the Denver sales center and their phone number wasn't working. So I called the service center and they gave me the same, non working phone number. Then I called Tesla Palo Alto. First phone number didn't work either, second finally worked. Yes, it's true,we are experiencing phone problems they said. So what about my Tesla test drive for this weekend, I planned for it, and haven't heard back, I asked. Sorry, can't help you she answered...
No judging here, just telling you about my experience. Again, this is something I have never experienced with the other Marques. I really like this car, I think the AP is amazing, that's why I'm willing to pay that much for not much else than AP (and power), but I'm afraid that I will have many service related headaches on the way. What if my car is in service for 4 weeks, will they still charge me my monthly $2000+ payment?
Your input, except the one of a couple trolls like Warped, are very valuable and I very much appreciate you guys taking your time!

Communication has always been an issue at Tesla and will likely continue to be as long as Elon Musk is the CEO. He apparently doesn't hold his people accountable for anything, as witnessed by his sleeping on the Model X production line to ensure quality. A good CEO doesn't have to do that if he has hired the right people and enforced the proper protocols and made his expectations clear, expectations that would result in termination or other penalty if not achieved in most other organizations.

You have to look at Model S this way: It's a $50,000 car strapped to a $40,000 battery. A Falcon 9 rocket costs many millions of dollars, but that doesn't make it a luxury product. Tesla uses the word "premium" to describe its cars, and service definitely fits that description as well. But luxury? Not so much.
 
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Just a small tip.
Don't get the highest model, it will depreciate fast.
and, be advised that Tesla will make a change in every 3-6 months.
They just do it as the tech is ready, they don't wait. They released 90d, then people thought, oh this is a great time to buy. They restarted referral program. Then, they released facelift models. People started to order, and then they released p100d. It is obvious that something else will come in 3-6 months. They do this because Tesla is a public company, they try to keep the stocks hot. Their delivery numbers should be good. They don't have luxury to have official release cycles and announce low delivery numbers in some quarters. They keep changing it so that people would think it is a good time to buy.
They also release "news" , like very week, to keep stocks warm.
and you may want to drive carefully or you may have to wait months to get back your car Excessive wait for replacement parts (and, Where is the radar located in the refreshed Model S?)

This is just my opinion that I come up with after following Tesla and Elon for the last 4 years.
 
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Off course Tesla is innovating quickly but not to keep the stock hot or news or any other games. The speed of innovation is high and it is much safer to implement a small set of changes in production any time they are ready rather than waiting for a model cycle and release lots of them in one chunk. With 400k orders Tesla doesn't need to focus on stirring the news. It simply needs to improve on a very good car and scale up production with out any errors. That is best done by releasing upgrades as they become available.

So do we want Tesla to innovate slower? No really. Do we want them to bundle all changes once a year? Not really because just the testing of the much larger set of cross dependencies increases the change mgt complexity massively and introduces risk that is best mitigated by incremental change?

Any new car will depreciate fast. Is this tesla special? Not really. I could be upset that our P85DL is no longer the fastest beast on the road? The truth is even our older P85+ is still great fun to drive. Tesla has been pretty good allowing owners of a prev generation to upgrade one level of innovation.
 
They just do it as the tech is ready, they don't wait. They released 90d, then people thought, oh this is a great time to buy. They restarted referral program. Then, they released facelift models. People started to order, and then they released p100d. It is obvious that something else will come in 3-6 months. They do this because Tesla is a public company, they try to keep the stocks hot. Their delivery numbers should be good. They don't have luxury to have official release cycles and announce low delivery numbers in some quarters. They keep changing it so that people would think it is a good time to buy.
You're not willing to allow the possibility that they genuinely want to innovate as fast as possible?
 
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Soo, the big news about AP are finally here ( not sure why it took him so long, other than 2 year lease option run out tomorrow ), and no one has a clue about the question I raised as my main concern.

"There also a large number of important improvements. Something I think will be quite significant is that if the user ignores repeated warning to keep their hands on the wheel, if it ignores the audible alarm more than 3 times in an hour then the driver will have to park and restart in order to enable Autosteer.

One of the ironies that we’ve seen is counter intuitive and a lot of people on the consumer watchdog sites and in some cases on regulatory sites have assumed that Autopilot accidents are more likely for new users. In fact, it is the opposite. Autopilot accidents are far more likely for expert users. It is not the neophytes. It’s the experts.

They get very comfortable with it and repeatedly ignore the car’s warnings. It’s like a reflex. The car will beep at them, they tug the wheel, the car will beep at them, they tug the wheel, and it becomes an unconscious reflex action. So we will see half a dozen or more, sometimes as many as 10 warning in one hour continuously ignored by the driver. We really want to avoid that situation."

So, if a driver IGNORES the audible alarm three times per hour, then it's game over. Contrary he then writes that 'the car will beep at them, they tug the wheel', the car...bla bla." Wait, so tug is a hard, sudden pull. That's why we were supposed to do, right? Not a hard pull, but a bit of a pull to show that the driver is alert.

But tugging after an audible alert means the opposite of IGNORING the audible alert. If the driver doesn't do any action, then he ignores the audible alert. So what is the driver supposed to do to not ignore the audible alert? Hold the steering wheel and lick it??

Assuming Elon meant ignoring the visual, not audible alert:
Do I now have to look at the dashboard all the time? How is that safe? That may would work with a heads up display, but obviously Tesla doesn't have a heads up display, a technology that is must have in any cutting edge vehicle (or helmet). Only other option is to keep my hands on the steering wheel all the time. **** that (pardon my French).

I also think that he realized that AP based on cameras is not working , and they had to put the breaks on and move to radar, like every other manufacturer. I think there's a high chance that the AP, now based on radar, is going to be similar to Mercedes Drive Pilot (which is btw, very good, I just tested it yesterday and was very surprised. breaking much better than Tesla)

This thread is not about AP, but the limiting of AP at 8.0 was one of my concerns. I have until tomorrow to decide and I don't have a ****ing clue what "Elon" meant, and so does no one else on this board.

Does anyone know if I have a certain trial time where I can cancel the two year lease?