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Not sure I buy it: P85 vs 90D

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by Gig103, Oct 6, 2016.

  1. Gig103

    Gig103 Member

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    Hi all, my first post here!
    I am working on nailing down a Model S purchase, and I am primarily looking for a CPO P85, but since I would like Autopilot, it's more likely a P85D.

    In the showroom, the sales person recommended that I consider a 90D because the price is going to be similar or better after the federal tax credit, and I could take advantage of an owner referral as well. And honestly I don't want the 21" tires if I can avoid them (which I could if building new and not getting a P).

    I believe him that the 0-60 on a P85 and a 90D are the same, but is the overall drive the same? He did not have a 90D for me to drive, and I know from the website that the P models have the higher power rear motor, and the 90D has two smaller motors.

    I'm going to try and get into one for a test drive, but in the mean time, I thought it was a good opportunity to join the forum and get my first post in! I can't wait to keep reading!
     
  2. davidc18

    davidc18 Member

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  3. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

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    RWD is definitely "sportier". The P85 will break the rear tires loose a little during hard acceleration, until the nannies take-over.

     
  4. No2DinosaurFuel

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    90D never slip on dry pavement even at full throttle. Maybe on wet. I also hear the 90D is faster off the line but the p85 eventually catches up. Not 100% sure but that is what people are saying. The obvious other benefit is the 90D is newer and probably is better built compared to the p85.
     
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  5. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    We just had a P85+ as a loaner and were very happy to get our car back. Not having AP and TACC were the major items I missed.

    Comparing the two cars' performance, the P85+ was definitely faster off the line, but over 40 mph or so, if it was faster, it wasn't very noticeable.

    The handling was interesting to me. The P85+ cornered significantly flatter than our car, but seemed to have more understeer, which I put down to torque vectoring with our 85D. Overall, I wouldn't say the P85+ handled significantly better than our car and both are inferior to our NSX. The larger, lower profile tires and stiffer suspension are decidedly less comfortable than ours and seem to return somewhat worse energy efficiency.

    Bottom line, IMHO our 85D is a far nicer car than the P85+.
     
  6. davidc18

    davidc18 Member

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    Only the "P" cars have the larger rear motor.
     
  7. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

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    The non-P RWD cars also have the larger motor. The P-series has a better inverter.
     
  8. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker Beta Tester

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    Welcome to the forum!

    There are a few P85D CPOs with AutoPilot available right now. If you don't mind the miles, you can save $35000 off the price of the P90D. Yes, the tax credit of $7500 off the new P90D would help but the P85Ds would be cheaper. The good thing is the CPOs would have a new warranty and any potential issues would've probably already been fixed by the original owner.

    Good luck in your car search.
     
  9. No2DinosaurFuel

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    There is a 2014 inventory P85D right now for sale for 91K. It should be 84K or less after tax credit if you are willing to put with a 2014 car with 40K miles on it. Expensive IMO, but hey that's just me.

    http://www.tesla.com/new/5YJSA1H2XEFP54663
     
  10. Science fan

    Science fan Member

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    My opinion, to follow, is based on the same, or approximately the same, price for the P85 and the 90D (including rebate). To me, this seems like a trick question. It does not even seem close. The 90D is new, I take it. The newer Teslas are better built, with fewer defects. Many unpublicized improvements will be in the 90D. The extra range of the 90D gives you more peace of mind. The 90D will hold the road like it is on rails, although the P85 works just fine in that regard. The 90D will likely do better in snowy conditions. I prefer the standard 19" wheels to the 21" wheels for a number of reasons. The 90D has the new look in front and will thus have more resale value. Others may disagree, and they might even be giving better advice than I have, but the choice seems so clear to me. Go with the 90D. Also, if price is a factor, I would even go with an S60/75 or S60D/S75D, rather than the older P85+.
     
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  11. PtG62901

    PtG62901 Member

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    I have a 3 week old S 90D, and faced this choice. You have to decide who you are, and what you want. New car vs used, same unbelievable performance on the road, AWD vs RWD, same price? It wasn't very hard to decided for me. The new cars are simply better build quality then older. I wouldn't buy the car without AP. The 90D is 0-60 is 4.2 seconds and drives faster in traffic then ICE cars rated the same.

    Some people are paying a premium for that P in front, if that is you, go for it. It goes with paying extra for 21" tires, even though they are inferior in most respects.
     
  12. Gig103

    Gig103 Member

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    Thanks to everyone who replied so far!

    I posted about the P85, because I was curious about the salesman's claims. But honestly, when it comes down to the money, a new 90D cost is comparable to a CPO (or new as above) P85D. If I forgo the 'P' and custom build, I can keep the 19" tires which I would prefer to do, but I also would lose premium audio, air suspension, and cold weather - features I wouldn't add to the car if building myself, but they do have value.

    A few of you commented about fit and finish and 'unseen' improvements in new, plus the fascia. That's where it gets tough. P85D versus 90D is probably a different question, so I will pose it out to the forum! :)
     
  13. davidc18

    davidc18 Member

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    We first purchased the 70D with autopilot as the only upgrade. AutoPilots advertised features were the reason we purchased the car. We did not need the range of the original 85, so we saved 10K on that. Around town, nothing other than another Tesla can keep up with the 70D, so unless you really like launching the car, the new 90D would be my recommendation. If you don't need the range of the 90, then save the money and get the 60, which you can charge to 100% everyday for a full 200 miles of range (which is just a bit less than the 70D at 90%). I don't see the 75 as a worthwhile upgrade based on my experience.
     
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  14. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker Beta Tester

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    Something else to consider is the insurance on a P could be a lot more, depending on your age and driving history. A P85 might be cheaper to purchase put might cost twice as much to insure as an S90. You might want to get some quotes using sample VINs before you decide on a model.
     
  15. bonaire

    bonaire Active Member

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    The D drive should be better. Corning, control and even highway torque vectoring can increase range. If you need the acceleration and range, 90D is good. If you rarely need 230+ mile range, a 75D or 60D is the way to save money. If you have to have the acceleration, definitely D over the RWD models which themselves are "seemingly" depreciating faster than D models. RWD also had a history of chewing through rear tires quickly if the alignments were off.
     
  16. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Also you can turn off one of the nannies on the RWD that you can't on the AWD. This feature (the turn off option) is one of the few remaining features of my Sig P85 that makes it better than my P85D+L.
     
  17. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Kind of amazing it has 40k miles without ever being titled. That's a lot of demo / loaner usage.

    The VIN is 54663. For comparison, my December '14 P85D is in the 69k range.

    I wonder if this one has the self-closing charge port.
     
  18. Mike K

    Mike K Member

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    As someone that owned a non-P 85, drove plenty of P85 loaners and currently owns a P85D, I would suggest the 90D. Any benefit in handling isn't going to matter to you in Phoenix and it's not like my non-P car handled bad at all. The P85D is oppressively fast off the line but not much faster than my old 85 at speed.

    Unless you can get yourself in a P85D for cheap, I think salesperson's suggestion of a 90D is solid.
     
  19. Gig103

    Gig103 Member

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    Thanks for the very important point. I ran two quotes and it's only $18/mo more for a P85D than a 90D.

    Thanks for your personal experience. I haven't driven a non P car yet, and that's probably what's making me so unsure. On paper, the P is a huge delta in torque and HP. You're right about handling not mattering much on our straight and wide open roads!
     
  20. Mike K

    Mike K Member

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    Don't get me wrong, it is. But that fades almost instantly, especially on the P85D Insane cars. I used to have a 500hp BMW 535 that was stupid fast and it got to 60's in the low 4's. Low 4's in a sedan is still considered to be very fast. That's a tenth of a second slower than the current M5, so not a slouch by anyone's standards.
     

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