Not the typical Performance vs. LR topic

[DayTrippin]

Long story short, we are selling our model Y LR with boost and plan to replace it with a M3.

The current delta is 8k between P and LR. If we buy the LR most likely will add boost to it too. The delta shrinks to 6k then.

With our Y and boost, it is pretty much heads up with the Performance from about 25 mph up. The initial launch it is a bit slower but on a roll you wouldn't know you were driving the Performance other than the better ride quality. Is that accurate when comparing the M3P and M3LR with acceleration boost?

If the delta between M3P and M3LR were the same as on the Y currently, it would be no brainer to with the M3P as it is only 5k. I would like the track mode of the M3P but don't really want the 20" wheels. I really wish they would bring back the stealth model like many others.

We'll be able to sell our Y for far more than either of the M3's so cost isn't the factor here. I am looking more at the value and maintenance costs down the road. M3P brake pads are like 1k a set. The 20" tires we'd have to sell as my wife would curb the heck out of them. If I am lucky, might be able to sell them for enough to buy a decent lighter wheel and tire combo but that is sort of a gamble.

The M3LR will be about as fast stock as our boosted Y is and generally it is plenty quick in most situations so might wait to pull the trigger one AB if we go with the M3LR.

So realistically I am looking at an 8k difference. We have a model S that will arrive in about 2 weeks which is significantly faster than the M3P so the quicker off the line acceleration of the M3P isn't as much of an issue. I think the one thing I would miss the most is the track mode on the M3P. I liked how I could tailor the car to how I wanted to drive it but I don't know how often I would really use it. It definitely isn't worth 6-8k to get it.

Any differences currently in the headlights? My other concern is once we are through this crazy chip shortage and the impact on lead times and prices, the Performance model might depreciate quicker. I have bought a lot of top of the line performance cars in my life and as soon as the next, better, faster, sexier model comes out, my flagship car is priced like yesterday's news while a step or down is more insulated from the price shocks at least until there is a major refresh. I think the Y will be refreshed soon with the new chassis than the 3, so that is one of the reasons I am bailing on the Y now as it seems like the used pricing is like peak oil. Once the structural battery packs hit and Austin is online, they will be the new hotness and the current Y will be just leftovers by comparison.

Am I missing anything to think about?

 

[jjrandorin]

Am I missing anything to think about?

Nope

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

The LR is an undeniably better value than the P, especially if you don't want the 20" wheels anyway.

LR should depreciate slower, cost less to insure, and even if you don't like those wheels either, you can at least keep the tires. Plus, if/when the tax credit plan is finalized, it's likely that LR models will qualify but Performance models will not.

As for acceleration, I think the non-boosted LR is the same as the P at any speed above 50mph anyway. And both will vary wildly with SOC. Once boosted, I think the LR would be tough to distinguish from the P. Note that track mode is (intentionally) a hassle to use on the street so it's not nearly as valuable as it might seem on paper.

You're right about the Y getting updated and that should affect the value of yours, but who knows? Used car values are far detached from reality these days so it might make no difference at all in the near term.

 

[DayTrippin]

Great point on the tax credit though I have pretty much written that one off at this point. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised in the future if it comes back.

Another good point about access of the track mode. I haven't seen how it is to get to in the new interface (if much different). Not to mention I'd probably eat up tires more quickly than Teslas already do and the family would hate it if I really punch it from a stop.

 

[SumOne]

Better be sure you don't want 20" wheels, lowered suspension, or upgraded brakes cause parts + install is going to cost $2k or more each.

Also, Tesla can't remove boost from the car when it gets a new owner.

 

[jjrandorin]

Great point on the tax credit though I have pretty much written that one off at this point. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised in the future if it comes back.

Another good point about access of the track mode. I haven't seen how it is to get to in the new interface (if much different). Not to mention I'd probably eat up tires more quickly than Teslas already do and the family would hate it if I really punch it from a stop.

I just ordered a model Y performance yesterday, when I decided to replace my wifes 2019 X3 M40 with a model Y. She would be fine with a Model Y Long range (actually, the model Y performance might be a bit too fast for her seeing as how much faster it is than her current car, even though the X3 M40 is a performance minded ICE SUV).

I am only getting the Model Y performance because the price delta right now is only 5k between the two, and I would end up buying the boost anyway (cause I have a model 3 performance, and would want the speed). So, the delta on the model Y side becomes 3k, and I happen to like the Model Y performance wheels.

IF (big if) any credits are re instated, the Model Y is a SUV so would qualify for it in performance guise as it is now.

On the model 3 side I am partial to the performance, but thats because thats what I have. My wife and I went to test drive a model Y yesterday (they had the exact car we ordered actually, a MSM model Y performance, which had ryzen processor too), and I was blown away by how much better that car was than mine from a road noise / build standard.

Dont get me wrong, I like my model 3 (its a 2018) but everything about the model Y felt "better" from a build quality standpoint. Not quite her X3 in build quality, but much closer than I was expecting. She spent the entire test drive in chill mode, lol. She already thinks my car is "too fast" so doesnt drive it that much (and its my baby, she thinks).

She would get used to it if its her car, though.. she likes to drive her X3 in sport mode, so its not like she lacks for enjoyment of performance.

I think you covered all the thinking points in your first post, though, which is why my other response was so brief even though I tend to be wordy.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Track mode is the same with the new interface and note that it mostly just changes the handling balance when *cornering* at/beyond the limits. It has no effect on straight line behavior such as "punching it from a stop".

 

[dmurphy]

So I’ll be the contrarian …. I don’t find the P or even the Accel Boost to carry any value for me.

It’s a near parlor trick, and something that I’ll appreciate the 3 or 4 times I try it after purchase.

But beyond that, the number of times I’ll give a damn whether I go 0-60 barely a half second faster (if that?) — pretty much zero.

As mentioned above, LR and P are basically the same above 50mph anyway.

$5k is a lot of money for a parlor trick. I’d rather take a cruise for the dollars.

But I don’t take my car to the track, I don’t autocross, and I’ve got a family to care for. LR is more than plenty of speed for me. And I can deck it out with the wheels I want. The “lowered” suspension barely makes any difference at all, the P brakes don’t stop you any quicker (they may delay brake fade a little if you’re racing) and I can get silver pedal covers for $10 on Amazon.

So there ya go - I’ll be the contrarian who says save the pennies, get the LR and use the extra bucks to take a memorable vacation!

 

[tm1v2]

My own take is M3P is only worth the big $8k premium over M3LR if you want to drag(/street) race, or if you must have Track Mode. Or if the money is no problem and you just want the fastest version, nothing wrong with that.

The better brakes are nice, and I value them, but for pure street driving they're not really necessary, not like I use them much in an EV.

For me Track Mode is essential for my full enjoyment of the car. That is why I got the M3P. The better brakes are a nice side benefit. The extra acceleration barely mattered to me because it's all at low speeds as you say, and I'm not into drag racing. If you already know you'll be fine without Track Mode then I don't see much reason for you to spend $8k extra on the P. Also if you just find yourself annoyed by the nannies you can get the MPP Party Box for about $1k.

Lastly I agree about expecting greater depreciation with the M3P. Definitely in absolute numbers, but even percentage-wise I expect M3LR to depreciate less. That wasn't much of a factor in my decision but if you're likely to sell it within a few years it's another point for the M3LR.

 

[DayTrippin]

I was looking at the track mode for to enhance the driving on backroads. Sadly not a lot of good ones where we live now so likely not worth investing in the M3P the more I think about it.

The basic M3 is so much more fun to drive than the Y to begin with it might be enough. Although if the difference was only 5k as with the MYP and MYLR it would be no brainer. When I bought my MYLR, I think the delta was 8 or 9k and definitely wasn't worth the upgrade and you didn't even get track mode.

Everyone's input has been really helpful. It really clarified things for me. We likely won't keep the car more than 3-4 years so the M3 LR makes a lot more sense. Likely will drive it for a while without boost and when my wife isn't looking, maybe slip it in. I can honestly say I use the boosted aspect of our MYLR almost daily. We have an area where it is really difficult to merge and the 30-70 acceleration is outstanding with the boost.

We'll likely place the order tonight once we decide on color. Hopefully by the time we get it, it will come with ventilated seats. ;-)

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

[Knightshade]

Possibly the data below will be helpful to you.

FWIW back when I got mine in 2018 it was an $11,000 jump in price LR-AWD to P3D- and another 5k to the P3D+, so I'm very happy with getting the AWD and then getting the $2,000 boost later that basically made it a launch-edition P3D- without track mode. If it'd only been 5k I'd have gotten a P- to start with, but I was never interested in the + version with the fragile and heavy 20" wheels.

 

[tm1v2]

I was looking at the track mode for to enhance the driving on backroads. Sadly not a lot of good ones where we live now so...

You should fix that

 

[DayTrippin]

You should fix that

I wish I could fix it easily. My wife got a better job offer it was contingent upon relocation. The increase in pay almost pays for a Model S every year. So I'll live with about a 2 hour drive now to have some nice backroads. Our other option would have been to relocate to NYC. Meh... worked there for too long and hated all the income taxes I had to pay over lesser taxed states. The bombed out roads, horrendous traffic and mediocre weather made sure I never wanted to come back. So easy choice between Dallas and NYC.

Now if we could live in the Austin hill country, that would be a nice compromise but the commute would be hell for my wife...

 

[DayTrippin]

We put in an order for the M3 LR. Thanks to everyone for their input. Time to put the Y up for sale. The 3 could be here as early as in 6 weeks according to the EDD. Maybe as long as 10 weeks.

 

[Ren.OG]

Ya'll forgot about the brake rotors and caliper differences:

OEM Brake Rotor Specifications Overview​

• Model 3 Front Brake Rotor
  • Standard/Base Model – 320mm by 25mm thick, weighing 21.09 pounds
  • Performance Upgrade Package – 355mm by 25mm thick 2-piece rotor, weighing 19.2 pounds
• Model 3 Rear Brake Rotor
  • Standard/Base Model – 335mm by 20mm thick, weighing 16.88 pounds
  • Performance Upgrade Package – 335mm by 20mm 2-piece rotor, weighing 14.2 pounds
• Model 3 Front Brake Caliper
  • Standard/Base Model – Made by brembo
  • Performance Upgrade Package – 4 piston caliper made by Brembo, weighing 9.6 pounds
• Model 3 Rear Brake Caliper
  • Standard/Base Model – Made by Mando
  • Performance Upgrade package – Made by Brembo

Tesla Model 3 Brakes – Stock, Performance, Aftermarket – Tesla Model 3 Wiki

 

[Chicago MYLR]

Quick feedback from someone who has the Model Y +AB and just received the M3P as my wife got rear ended really badly and the MY is in the body-shop. I really enjoy driving the M3P in terms of handling. The car feels extremely planted, even though I've put winter tires on the M3P as I'm in the Midwest. Acceleration is amazing off the line, and even at slow speed - just punch it and I feels like nothing is going to "not allow you to merge".

I will say that at high speeds (65/70mph) while punching it, leaves a bit to be desired. Not complaining though, it's the most fun you can have in an "everyday driver". With the AB, it feels similar regarding get up and go, but again keep in mind you get a whole package in terms of handling, braking & acceleration vs just one area that's beefed up. You have a whole cohesive package with the Performance package.

 

[DayTrippin]

I had been debating a bit even after making the order. The brake upgrades don't really matter that much as I almost always use regen. I am pretty sure the LR with AB will be a great option. I have to say I love how the 20" wheels look on the M3P but I just walked out of a store and say a blue M3P while walking back to the house. As I got closer it was apparent the wheels were just curbed to hell. I would have been embarrassed to drive it considering how bad it looked.

Since my wife will be the principal driver, I know if they were the 20's they would probably look like the wheels on the M3P I just saw pretty quickly. She is an amazing woman but depth perception while parking and driving near curbs is not her strong suit. I almost thought about buying some curb feelers that the pimpmobiles from the 70's & 80's used to have.

Factor in the shorter (stiffer) sidewall would not be her friend for ride comfort and she wasn't real happy the last time we test drove an M3P. First time she ever hit me in the car was the second time I punched the accelerator to the floor from a dead stop. She seems more tolerant once were on a roll if I get on it. It will definitely be better to just go with the LR and add AB down the road in the grand scheme of things. The S should satisfy my urges for harder acceleration when the weather isn't good enough to ride one of the bikes.

 

[tm1v2]

Just be sure you won't regret not having Track Mode. That's all. Though if your S will be a Plaid you'll get Track Mode in that one at least.

From the way you've been referring to your S on order I've been assuming it'll be the "base" (formerly LR) version. Which sure seems plenty fast to me, nothing base about its speed, but it doesn't seem to be getting Track Mode.

 

[gearchruncher]

Just be sure you won't regret not having Track Mode. That's all. Though if your S will be a Plaid you'll get Track Mode in that one at least.

I heard no mention of taking the car to the track and using track mode on backroads is an awful idea unless you are seriously skilled (and can afford the tickets).

 

[DayTrippin]

Yes, went with the MS LR. I didn't think the Plaid was worth the 40-50k increase in cost at the time I ordered. I'd have no plans to track a car that big anyway so track mode would be less of an issue on it. I also know that I would have a hard time not finding way to explore its limits on the street and that really isn't the place to do it.

Track mode on M3P would be a lot more useful than on the Plaid. I spent a lot of time racing so I'd enjoy it but no real roads near me now to enjoy without driving hours. Hate to say it BEVs are sort of a part for the most part on any real circuit. You might get a few quick laps in and then the party is likely. I don't want to go down the road of doing all kinds of mods, maybe buy something a party box, upgrade all the stuff I'd likely need to and then have a car with no warranty at the end of it all. I've done that a few too many times in my life. Sink a ton of money in the car and it isn't worth much more (if at all) than if I'd left it stock for the most part. If I blew up the car my wife would kill me anyway.

I'll just wait a few years and convince my wife we need to upgrade if Tesla comes out with a much better M3P than they did or if the competition really gets serious and has a serious challenger to it. While I appreciate Tesla a lot, they have a way to go to approach the driving dynamics of a BMW. Now if BMW would really get serious (which it seems like they are) and get something without such a hideous grill as they put on the BEVs, I'd seriously consider them as for the most part we'll never take a long trip in her car so the SC network isn't so important.