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Not what you want to see on a Saturday night...

Discussion in 'Roadster 2008-2012' started by rudholm, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. rudholm

    rudholm Member

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    OVMS was showing me some errors but I didn't really pay attention, assuming they were ignorable charging messages/warnings.

    They weren't.

    Looks like I have a bad sheet. This is a 2.0 with 22,000 miles on it.

    Naturally, I did what any sensible Los Angeles Roadster owner would do and I texted @ExecMotorwerkz , put the car in Tow Mode, and dumped the logs. While dumping the logs, the car shut down nearly everything. The coolant pump stopped, the console went dark (not VDS), the doors wouldn't open from the outside, etc. The car was misbehaving somewhat, even wasn't responding to OVMS for a bit. I was a little concerned about the coolant pump being offline since it gets hot in my garage. It's a little scary but I'm hopeful Javier can get it sorted without too much financial pain.

    Anyone else deal with spontaneous sheet failures? Have a happy ending to share?

    (the date on the VDS is wrong because of the GPS week rollover error)

    image-20190907_195145.jpg IMG_20190907_191501.jpg
     
  2. X.l.r.8

    X.l.r.8 Supporting Member

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    #2 X.l.r.8, Sep 7, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
    The OVMS server is down and has need for 24 hours, would that be throwing codes, mines just not doing anything. Can you at least charge the car. My biggest concern would be preserving the pack.
     
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  3. rudholm

    rudholm Member

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    Nope, cannot charge or take it out of Park. Once I got it into Tow Mode, I left it there because I was afraid I might not be able to again. (Chocked the wheels and pulled the handbrake).

    It's at 92% (in Standard Mode) and doesn't appear to be falling any faster than normal so I should have time to get it to the shop unless something changes and it starts to discharge much more quickly, but I have no reason to think that would happen since the logs show that the error first occurred 08:03 yesterday and it's only dropped a couple percent since then.
     
  4. X.l.r.8

    X.l.r.8 Supporting Member

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    can you get to the diagnostic screen and check min brick level
     
  5. X.l.r.8

    X.l.r.8 Supporting Member

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    Battery service required

    Not much resolution but are you on the original battery, mine had the riveted battery (690) and had that error.
     
  6. X.l.r.8

    X.l.r.8 Supporting Member

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    1. I have got some debug messages for the list:

      ID: 257 red “APS output 1 (main) reset”

      ID: 1562 orange “VMS: Not receiving GS version number”

      ID: 1559 orange “VMS: Not receiving HVAC version number”

      ID: 1558 orange “VMS: Not receiving TCM version number”

      ID: 1522 orange “SWP: BPS Active”

      ID: 1131 yellow “DMC FW: Lost Comms With Shifter”

      ID: 1098 orange “DMC FW: Lost ABS Comms (and TC) warning”

      ID: 63 orange “GS: No data fault”

      ID: 61 orange “TCM: No data fault”

      ID: 54 orange “HVAC: No data fault”

      ID: 1661 yellow “PM: Gear Selector Comms Warning”

      ID: 58 orange “TPMS: No data fault”

      Is there a place where I can find an explanation for the abbreviations?


      REPORT
      + QUOTE REPLY

    2. PV-EVMember


      I think I can help with some.

      TPMS tire pressure monitoring system
      HVAC heating ventilating air conditioning
      TCM traction control module
      BPS backup power supply
      SWP switchpack
      VMS vehicle management system
      APS auxiliary power supply

      If you are experiencing these you may have lost your APS power to the PEM.
     
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  7. X.l.r.8

    X.l.r.8 Supporting Member

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    Thats all I got so far
     
  8. rudholm

    rudholm Member

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    #8 rudholm, Sep 7, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
    I did check the debug screens, voltages all looked normal. Mins and Maxes are all pretty close. Temps are normal (about ambient, which is in the 80s).

    I'm running the original battery in car #693.

    Edit: Brick Vmin is 4.01, Vmax is 4.04 0.03V seems like a small variation but I don't remember what it was normally.
     
  9. X.l.r.8

    X.l.r.8 Supporting Member

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    Then at best it could be a loose rivet on the BMS board being 3 away from mine. Have you tried the simple pulling the plugs on the VMS for a reset. If the voltages are good you have some time to trouble shoot and rule out the simple stuff. I'm not sure where the rivetes leads are on the BMB's but I bet there a pain to get at. I'll do another scan to see.
     
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  10. rudholm

    rudholm Member

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    I haven't tried resetting the VMS. I think it rebooted when I pulled the logs, though (it tends to do that for some reason)
     
  11. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    The api.openvehicles.com server was down between 8pm UTC (7th August) and 11:30pm UTC (same day). Cars or Apps couldn't access the server for those 3 1/2 hours.

    That wouldn't have thrown any error codes, and any errors thrown by the car would have been queued up and delivered at the 11:30pm reconnection.

    Dexter's EU server was unaffected by this.

    They seem quite rare. Far more common are the loss of balance over weeks (due to bad brick pulling it down), or general bricking due to lack of charging.

    From what you describe, APS is down. I guess the battery is trying to save itself, as something is pulling a sheet very low.
     
  12. rudholm

    rudholm Member

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    APS seems to shut down, but if I put the key in and turn it to ON, it seems to come back (stereo turns on, windows and exterior door handles start working again, coolant pump resumes). But then after a while it shuts off, probably as you say, so the battery can preserve itself. It was off long enough that I got a warning about the 12V battery being low, so I made it start again to charge it. I'm still at 91% (Standard Mode) so I'm not stressing about SoC yet.
     
  13. gregd

    gregd Active Member

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    My car (2.0) seems to maintain the 12v battery at 13.8v when it goes to sleep. I believe there's a DC-DC inverter inside the ESS that generates this voltage. Perhaps that has failed, or there's a wiring (connector) issue?
     
  14. PV-EV

    PV-EV Member

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    Loss or partial loss of APS due to bad connection can cause some strange errors. Try inhibiting APS and check your APS connector at the PEM for fit and inspect the pins for problems. Only takes a few minutes. This caused weird VMS and PEM problems in mine. Solved by replacing the connector and pins.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  15. jfischer

    jfischer Member

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    #15 jfischer, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
    Did you actually get the logs?

    If so open the tar file and then go into the flash dir. Look for a file called ahr.log.

    View it in notepad as its just standard TXT

    In it you will see each brick SOC and voltage.

    Take a look and see if one is way out of line then the others. When sheet failed on brick 21 failed, it looked like this

    upload_2019-9-9_14-44-21.png


    Notice the low SOC and Voltage of the bad brick?

    Should show you if you have a battery issue or not.

    Based on your saying your MIN and MAX brick voltabes were close, it might not be a brick issue,

    The prob with the bad brick is it limits the charge to 85 % of the highest brick level and then stops discharging with BAD BRICK gets to 10% or so... so you really get limited range until its fixed.

    So in my exmaple... I was FULLY CHARGED when brick 21 hit 55% because the rest were at 85%, and when brick 21 hit 10% it stopped even though all the other bricks were at maybe 50% or so....

    KInda bad design when a single brick can kill the whole pack usage.
     
  16. rudholm

    rudholm Member

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    I don't see any anomalous numbers. 36 and 37 are the lowest, but not extremely so. Maybe it's this rivet problem? Or something else?
     

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  17. jfischer

    jfischer Member

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    Based on what I see from your log, its NOT a battery or brick issue. Each brick looks good and within reasonable values.

    I was under the impression that a weld or rivet failure will cause a brick/sheet to fail and show abnormal values as did mine in that same log.

    Based on your values, I dont think you have a battery issue.

    I'd be looking elsewhere for the cause.
     
  18. rudholm

    rudholm Member

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    So if it's not an authentic cell/brick/sheet failure, the question becomes "what can cause a sheet failure error message when the bricks seem to report being OK?"
     
  19. X.l.r.8

    X.l.r.8 Supporting Member

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    Paging @ChadS do you remember what happened or what error occurred when the riveted ESS needed replacing
     
  20. ChadS

    ChadS Last tank of gas: March 2009. EV miles: 254,000

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    I got errors 259 and 1522. It sounds much different than this, although all sorts of crazy things can happen when the 12 volt battery gets low.

    Just in case, the issue with mine was documented in this thread: ID:259

    It supposedly was a common issue with 2.0 US VINs 501 to about 720.
     

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