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Not what you want to see on a Saturday night...

rudholm

Member
Aug 13, 2017
211
208
Los Angeles, CA
I spoke to Matthew at Tesla today. I was impressed with how knowledgeable he was about Roadsters.

He told me that Tesla will re-introduce the 3.0 battery at the same 29k price point and that it's currently in testing and firmware updating. He said it could go back into production as early as this quarter but that the waiting list is already about one year long.
 

gregd

Active Member
Dec 31, 2014
2,531
1,768
CM98
I spoke to Matthew at Tesla today. I was impressed with how knowledgeable he was about Roadsters.

He told me that Tesla will re-introduce the 3.0 battery at the same 29k price point and that it's currently in testing and firmware updating. He said it could go back into production as early as this quarter but that the waiting list is already about one year long.
Good to hear! Any mention of any changes in the batteries being used? If they're testing stuff, I presume that some changes were made...
 

rudholm

Member
Aug 13, 2017
211
208
Los Angeles, CA
Good to hear! Any mention of any changes in the batteries being used? If they're testing stuff, I presume that some changes were made...

I agree. I got the impression that it was a new battery design and not just more of the old 3.0 battery.
Since I was caught completely by surprise by this news, I didn't have questions ready. I'll ask for more details:

What's the capacity/range of this new battery?
What's the warranty period?
What changes are made to the rest of the car as part of the upgrade?
The original 3.0 battery exhibited a high rate of capacity decline, has this been addressed?
{insert your suggestions here}

Matthew very deliberately pointed out to me that replacing the battery represents a $29k investment in a vehicle for which parts will only become increasingly scarce and that while they do plan to make some parts for it, particularly batteries, they won't make every part as it's simply not financially viable to do so. I assured him that he had appropriately managed my expectations and that I was comfortable with the situation, particularly in light of the very good third-party support that has proven to be able to provide just about everything for these cars except new batteries.

The choice before me at this point is to spend $8k to have my original battery's rivet connections replaced and end up with the reliable but aging 143.5 CAC, 87% SoH battery that I had before, or spend an additional $21k and gain ~135 miles of range, a warranty, and a fresh new battery that presumably benefits at least somewhat from the last decade of Tesla's battery engineering advancements.

Since the battery is really the only wear item in an EV's drivetrain, A new battery will give the car a whole new lease on life, so this isn't a hard decision for me.
 

pharma5

Roadster F#25, Model 3 #36xx
Nov 22, 2011
555
113
central NJ
What's the capacity/range of this new battery?
What's the warranty period?
What changes are made to the rest of the car as part of the upgrade?
The original 3.0 battery exhibited a high rate of capacity decline, has this been addressed?
{insert your suggestions here}
What's the weight (or difference in weight) of the new pack?
 

Bunnak

Member
Jun 13, 2018
487
262
Orange County, CA, USA
I wonder if there will be unforeseen issues with this new battery pack? I respect those willing to drop $29K now but please do continue to share with us how the charge holds up. If it appears to work much better than the original 3.0 battery I'll likely purchase one late next year.
 

rudholm

Member
Aug 13, 2017
211
208
Los Angeles, CA
I suspect that the degradation problem with the original 3.0 pack was a big part of why they pulled it from the market. I have to assume that all the testing, validation, and firmware work they're doing on the new pack means it's a redesigned unit, which presumably addresses the degradation issue. But as you would expect, I will attempt to verify this before I hand them 29k$.
 

gregd

Active Member
Dec 31, 2014
2,531
1,768
CM98
Does the new pack support chademo or supercharging?
Highly doubtful. DC charging is not an ESS thing, but rather the PEM and all the plumbing between it and the inlet port on the side of the car. The JdeMO charging solution adds a new inlet port, as well as plumbing (relays) and the control logic to work around the existing equipment.
 

ViviV

Member
Sep 12, 2016
207
294
Southern New Jersey
I want to provide follow up on my battery repair experience in case it helps others in same situation.
Model: Roadster Sport 2.0, VIN #557
It started with alert #259 battery problem while charging followed by #1522 continuously and it was rendered not drive-able in August 2019. The battery was failing "bleed tests" and Tesla said it could only replace, not diagnose and repair the battery, however there were no replacement batteries available so that wasn't an option without waiting a long time. It would occasionally be responsive, but the errors always came back.
The car was towed to Gruber Motors in Sept 2019. Although it had to go on wheel dollies to Tesla fortunately it "woke up" in order to be driven onto the car carrier for the trip from Philadelphia to Phoenix.

Gruber motors made the following diagnosis and observations:
ESS pack failure to charge, erratic charging, range variations. Roadster software tools “bleed test” indicates out of tolerance voltage drop across bonding plate to BMB sense lead. User visible errors on the Roadster touch screen are “ID 7 Battery Service Required”, or Error “259 Charge Aborted-Battery, Problem Service Required”. In debug mode, errors are “ID 7 Battery Bleed Scan Failure”, and/or “283 BSM Isolation Fault, 286 BSM Isolation Fault While Contactors Closed, 287 BSM Isolation Fault Before Charge”.
Earlier models of Roadster ESS packs used an aluminum pop rivet BMB sense lead mounting method on brick bonding plates. Once it was realized pop rivet clamping force was unpredictable and some were working loose over time, this process was replaced with an ultrasonic weld. Secondarily, we found 3414 Loctite oozing into certain rivets affecting the quality of connection. Some rivets on affected sheets have liberal application of an anti-oxidant (Penetrol).

Here is how they fixed it after removing the battery:
Once brick bond plates are exposed, pop rivets securing BMB board sense wires can be drilled out with a 1/8” drill bit. Bottom portion of Pop Rivet can be extracted with tweezers, and care should be taken not to allow metal drill fragments to migrate into brick connecting points. The affected Pop Rivets are removed. Each sensing wire eyelet and bond plate entry point is cleaned and rivets are replaced with 6-32 x ¼” PC grade hex head bolts with anti-slip teeth, torqueing them to 20 inch pounds, and finishing the conversion with an application of Loctite.
upload_2020-6-4_22-56-1.png


Several rivets were thus compromised in a few of my Roadster's battery sheets causing the battery error. The battery was pulled from the car and we opted to replace all 121 rivets in the battery (11 rivets per sheet x 11 sheets) rather than just the originally problematic ones so as to not have the problem recur in other rivets. Total price for the battery repair excluding transport and PEM maintenance was $8220. I was told that this problem only afflicted earlier Roadsters - I'm not sure what VIN# the materials for the rivets changed. It returned home in April 2020 ready for spring and summer.
 

jfischer

Member
Feb 6, 2014
186
246
Houston
I want to provide follow up on my battery repair experience in case it helps others in same situation.
Model: Roadster Sport 2.0, VIN #557
It started with alert #259 battery problem while charging followed by #1522 continuously and it was rendered not drive-able in August 2019. The battery was failing "bleed tests" and Tesla said it could only replace, not diagnose and repair the battery, however there were no replacement batteries available so that wasn't an option without waiting a long time. It would occasionally be responsive, but the errors always came back.
The car was towed to Gruber Motors in Sept 2019. Although it had to go on wheel dollies to Tesla fortunately it "woke up" in order to be driven onto the car carrier for the trip from Philadelphia to Phoenix.

Gruber motors made the following diagnosis and observations:
ESS pack failure to charge, erratic charging, range variations. Roadster software tools “bleed test” indicates out of tolerance voltage drop across bonding plate to BMB sense lead. User visible errors on the Roadster touch screen are “ID 7 Battery Service Required”, or Error “259 Charge Aborted-Battery, Problem Service Required”. In debug mode, errors are “ID 7 Battery Bleed Scan Failure”, and/or “283 BSM Isolation Fault, 286 BSM Isolation Fault While Contactors Closed, 287 BSM Isolation Fault Before Charge”.
Earlier models of Roadster ESS packs used an aluminum pop rivet BMB sense lead mounting method on brick bonding plates. Once it was realized pop rivet clamping force was unpredictable and some were working loose over time, this process was replaced with an ultrasonic weld. Secondarily, we found 3414 Loctite oozing into certain rivets affecting the quality of connection. Some rivets on affected sheets have liberal application of an anti-oxidant (Penetrol).

Here is how they fixed it after removing the battery:
Once brick bond plates are exposed, pop rivets securing BMB board sense wires can be drilled out with a 1/8” drill bit. Bottom portion of Pop Rivet can be extracted with tweezers, and care should be taken not to allow metal drill fragments to migrate into brick connecting points. The affected Pop Rivets are removed. Each sensing wire eyelet and bond plate entry point is cleaned and rivets are replaced with 6-32 x ¼” PC grade hex head bolts with anti-slip teeth, torqueing them to 20 inch pounds, and finishing the conversion with an application of Loctite.
View attachment 548147

Several rivets were thus compromised in a few of my Roadster's battery sheets causing the battery error. The battery was pulled from the car and we opted to replace all 121 rivets in the battery (11 rivets per sheet x 11 sheets) rather than just the originally problematic ones so as to not have the problem recur in other rivets. Total price for the battery repair excluding transport and PEM maintenance was $8220. I was told that this problem only afflicted earlier Roadsters - I'm not sure what VIN# the materials for the rivets changed. It returned home in April 2020 ready for spring and summer.

Interesting and Informative. I will add that my 2.5 (#1042) had an original battery with charge degradation due to sense lead failure on a brick.

I think I got one of the LAST battery replacements available from Tesla last year ( Nov 2019). Just wanted to note my "supposed" newer model battery had the BSM lead issue. The refurbished one I got has the "spot weld" fix, but my original one didn't and had the same failure as exhibited by #557
 

CAR3NUT

Member
Jan 2, 2019
228
83
Tucson, AZ
I have been up to Gruber Motors and Pete showed me their process of removing the rivets and replacing them with the hex screws, talk about a tedious job almost up there with brain surgery.
I've always wondered about my 673, the battery was replaced with a "reman battery" in 2013.:) The cost then was $2,065.70 for battery and $2,122.75 to remove and re-install. Did this battery have the updated connections or the old rivets? :rolleyes: Guess someday I may find out. :rolleyes:
In 2016 the PEM was replaced with a "reman". So I'm hoping I have a few more years and miles of enjoyment.
 

rudholm

Member
Aug 13, 2017
211
208
Los Angeles, CA
The saga ended last week. Medlock & Sons replaced every rivet connection in my car's battery. While it was up there, he also replaced some other things that needed it; tie rods, some PEM connectors, the clockspring... Replaced the amplifier and subwoofer as well and added some sound insulation. The sound system sounds amazing now. I had no idea the car could sound that good without replacing all the speakers.

The car should be good for a bunch more years now.
 

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